What to read next

Leave a comment

Sort by
  • newest
  • oldest
  • most voted
avatar

60 Comments on "Lt Gen responds to Express editorial"

Patriot not Scud
Guest
Patriot not Scud
7 years 8 months ago
Shiv: Can Gen Bahri also talk about the rank inflation in the services? How many commands were there during the 71 war and how many are there now? Which other army in the world has Lt Colonels as company commanders and not battalion commanders? Let him not fool others by quoting selective incidents from the past. The C-in-C in the British era used to stay what is now the teen murti house. Should the Chairman COSC get that house now? Times change, things change, status changes. How far will we go? When soldiers used to be rulers? Dethrone the PM… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago
Gen Bahri’s end lines sound like a threat. What is he warning us all about…A military coup just because they were denied as much pay as their IAS counterparts? If this what it means to carry a gun (speaking metaphorically of course)which, incidentally has been provided for by the nation state, then is this how people like General Bahri will react every time their demand is not met. A scary thought and all we have to do is look at Pakistan to realise what happened post 1953 when the Pakistan army carried out a threat quite similar to what Gen… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
of course you will say that.it was in fact a most idiotic and ill-informed editorial. there has been a consistent effort to reduce the forces' prestige in GoI hierarchy started by the nehru regime which feared a military coup as was the norm in 3rd world countries. the IAS babus have continued that effort with gutso and relish way beyond what was envisaged even by nehru, who was well known for his opposition to the forces. fact is, after the 6th PC recommendations (oh, and BTW it didn't contain a single service man, in spite of the fact that they… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

Lets not get into the arguments of academic magnitude and loose the issue!
WHAT IS THE LOGIC BEHIND PLACING DIRECTORS (both IAS and NON IAS)IN PAY BAND-4 WHO WERE DRAWING LESS PAY THEN THE LT COLs OF THE ARMY ? Does it not amounts to extra smart move by BLOODY BABU’s and cheating?

Sid
Guest
Sid
7 years 8 months ago

Media is evidently not aware of the functioning of armed forces and its work culture (and they will never understand it).

A very delicate issues is being reported in a very wrong and immature manner.

The word “seniority” means a million bucks in ranks and cannot be played around.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

My humble request to all the intellectuals of this forum is to search the answer to the question I have raised in last post9in case you do not want to answer it
public ally).I am sure you will then agree with point of view of Gen Bahri.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

the reasons for the antipathy in the armed forces are not in the least unfounded. but for the three chiefs to base a request solely on a slightly forced and indefinitely perpetuated comparison with the IAS/IPS is just silly. i agree that the express has gotten misty eyed with the whole “armed forces have honour and dignity” thing, but i think the larger point holds. their demands should be independent of the damn civil services. – anjan

Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
@ the american patriot at the start of this section: do you know that in other armies there exists another rank b/w the col. and the maj gen ranks known as “brigadier generals” ?? which means a larger proportion of higher ranking officers than IA and its sister services. how does that affect the pay structure ?? go figure ! see for example: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Pay_panel_report_Armed_Forces_feel_cheated/articleshow/3434371.cms “‘‘The extant parity of Lt-Col rank officers has been lowered by retaining them in Pay Band-3 (Rs 15,600-39,100), while raising similarly placed civilians and paramilitary officers to PB-4 (Rs 37,400-67,000),’’ said an officer.” “‘‘The salary of… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
as I said in my earlier post, putting the forces in their place is an ongoing process carried out by many generations of GoI babus. it is a well known fact that IAS babus think they are the jewels of GoI and NO govt employee should be paid more than them. let me give an example:In 70’s/80’s the iraqi air force wanted IAF instructors to teach their fighter pilots for some months(less than a year). now, this is standard practice among friendly countries.however, they were going to pay those IAF instructors at a rate which exceeded both the IAF pay… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

I sincerely believe the forces need to take over for the good of the nation. Rule the country for a few years, clean out the political and civil administration mess and give us a new constitution. Kind of do what Charles de Gaulle did for France. In my opinion, this will be the fastest way to resolve a clutch of issues facing the nation.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago
all that will happen is that the armed forces will become the new IAS. you exchange one set of loathsome, good for nothing babus with another set. actually aroors post got me thinking about his mentality, and that of the media which actually thinks that editorial is good. and the other cheerleading idiots who think that lt gens frustration is a “threat”. these chaps have zero idea of the hardships the defence forces bear. my goodness, in the US, the public and media are so supportive of their troops, their people, in our case, the media goes out of its… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
@anon of 10:16 buddy, do you want IA to become like the paki army ?? ‘cuz that’s exactly what your recommendations will achieve. what makes you think army-wallas will make good administrators ?? they are not trained to do so and SHOULD not do so. comparing with de gaulle is not justified, de gaulle learnt the tricks of politics and leadership by coming up thru’ the grassroots movement in a very special situation. no Indian forces chief is going to get that type of experience anytime soon !anyway, a professional army like IA takes its discipline very very seriously. heck,… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
arre boss, why do you think I don’t follow your TV reporting as well ? I should have clarified, the downhill comment is not specific to the blog.pardon my blunt speak, couple of years back you did some atrocious reports. your stuff started improving around a year, subtract a month or two back. denied of any journos who can tell apart a mig21 from a mig29(Raj chengappa,huma siddiqui or TS subramanium notwithstanding), any Indian def enthusiast has to make do with whoever is available. just that, I thought you may shape up to be a good one, unlike the rajat… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

regarding dear prasun’s articles:

well, if you are ready to post anything in order to foster debates, why not post maoist pamphlets that say India spends 20% of GDP on defence ?? 😉
would get you even better responses !

if you are ready to put your own credibility on the line for that, well that’s your decision ! don’t say I didn’t warn you !

after all, posting prasun’s articles on livefist gives him a certain credibility and respectability that he doesn’t deserve. not because what he did in the past but because his articles continue to be ctrl C, ctrl V trash.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

buddy, do you want IA to become like the paki army ??

Paki army is that way because it is made of Paki-men. The Indian army can not become like the Paki army until it starts enlisting Pakis.

what makes you think army-wallas will make good administrators ??

The army-wallahs don’t have to administer. They have to replace the politicians and stay on until the new republic is established.

Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

sure, and the “new” republic will be run by ??
the “old” politicians, I guess ??

Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

sure, and the “new” republic will be run by ??
the “old” politicians, I guess ??

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

sure, and the “new” republic will be run by ??
the “old” politicians, I guess ??

Yes, in part. The main benefit is in compressing 30 or more years of democratic transformation into a shorter period of time.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago
Everybody seems to have got into unnecessary arguments over pay. If army people talk of take over then they are free to act. But can they? Indian never walk the talk. That’s our basic flaw. As regards to IAS dominating over army, well it’s true. But can you do something about it? Then why talk? Learn from babus – less talk and more act. Piece of advice for army guys, when you get your chance to hog the limelight make your presence felt and extract your pound of flesh. Promote everyone. Has anyone said no to it. By the way… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

Offensive editorial and even more offensive response (esp the last para). If the General is threatening a coup, let him say it frankly say that so.

It is time armed forces stop being loyal only to their uniform (or their branch of service) and start being loyal to the constitution. Constitution is the only contract between a citizen and the state.

And, you know what, life sucks. Grass is always greener on the other side.

patriotic
Guest
patriotic
7 years 8 months ago
WAKE UP INDIA – YOUR NATION YOUR MOTHER IS CALLINGProbably people in the Armed Forces have NOT realized that we are the residents of an UNGRATEFUL NATION where everyone is SELF SERVING ! In order to understand the current state of affairs let us get some facts right !Our history is replete with the fact that at every stage AN INDIAN HAS SOLD INDIA FOR HIS PERSONAL GAINS and we INDIANS have lived eternally as SLAVES !Having lived eternally under KINGS and then UNDER FOREIGN RULERS, be it ALEXANDER, CHANGEZ KHAN, MUGALS, PORTUGESE OR THE BRITISHERS, we Indians have sold… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
sure aroor, I wonder who is going personal or juvenile here. I haven’t tried to take apart prasun’s reports because I couldn’t decide where to begin, the stuff he writes !! you don’t have to respond to each and every BS that floats on the net, that way you will end up spending half your life on pakistani forums !!I just wanted to make you aware of prasun’s reputation as a plagarist and an unreliable reporter.That’s it, if you think his articles are still kosher on livefist, it’s your call.I will comment on his articles as I see fit. and… Read more »
SK Bahri
Guest
SK Bahri
7 years 8 months ago
Shiv:I am surprised at your query regarding about the accretion in ranks and regional commands since 1947. The Army was very happy with its structure but the other services went to town upgrading their appointments, as explained by me in my response to the IE edit. The Army had suggested that it would be happy with its rank structure if their pays were increased. It was the IAS who forced us to introduce increase higher ranks retain some parity, against our better sense. As regards the Commands – there were three Commands till late 50s for a 1.5 lakh Army.… Read more »
SK Bahri
Guest
SK Bahri
7 years 8 months ago

I see that my response to another affront couched in the IE edit has raised hackles.My implied threat seems to make people think only about a takeover like the Pak Army’s. I have been long enough in the IA to reiterate that it will not follow the Pak route. But it could, while taking home fat pay cheques, function with the same or better “efficiency” as the IAS/IPS and their ilk. That would be a bigger disaster for the Country than a military takeover. SK Bahri

Fauji Chick
Guest
Fauji Chick
7 years 8 months ago
I’m rather surprised at the people who have reacted as if the General is threatening a coup! But then that is a typical Indian civilian view- take out the armed forces for the Republic Day Parade, watch Kargil on NDTV and pass the dal yaar, Kashmir is not the body bags which come early in the morning at Palam but telegenic Omar Abdullah and then pack these guys off to their barracks or they might get ideas—like a coup! As someone wrote: you pay peanuts and you get monkeys. How do you expect men to lay down their lives on… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago
SK Bahri, the only hackles you raised were aroors and some of his fellow travellers. the rest of us in india still appreciate the services & while we dont worship you all, we do respect you far more than we respect the likes of aroor. i think that speaks for itself, so you need not have any worries on that score. sadly, by their immature behaviour, the indian media are digging their own grave. their recent behaviour during the arushi case was another case in point. more and more people see the media as contempt worthy as politicos and babus,… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago
fauji chick: "the bloody vales of Kashmir- a mess created by treacherous self serving politicians" lets quit bashing the politicians for once and call it what is. a mess created by feeding a bunch of islamist, ungrateful kashmiris our hard earned money and listening to their rabid pro-pakistan slogans. well, i think india has paid enough for the land & we do own the rights to it, lock stock and tender. the kashmiri muslims of srinagar and the valley, those proud patriots who love to burn indian flags and wave the pakistani one, are welcome to emigrate to that paradise… Read more »
Fauji Chick
Guest
Fauji Chick
7 years 8 months ago
Anonymous:Here are my views on Kashmir sent recently to a TV Channel: Seeing Geelani last night on Big Fight I was left wondering in which country would he have been allowed to speak thus. In Pakistan? In Saudi Arabia? Two countries from who Mr. Geelani draws support.Its only here we have people actually professing treason on National TV. Why don’t we call their bluff? Let them go. As Vir Sanghvi said today in the HT. What have they given us: Damn all! How long will we lose our sons and fathers defending people who have no respect for the salt… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

Shiv Aroor said…

fighterclass: my last word — you’ve satisfied my ego more than i’d bargained for, with your obtuse tripe. let’s leave it at that!

______________________________________

well I will not pile on the insults, given what you are already getting !! just this, your obnoxious comments to my remarks only show what you are !!

but don’t let that worry you, given your vain ego, you are beyond repair.

once a DDM, always a DDM !

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

what is DDM

Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

desi dork media.
which thinks all migs are “flying coffins” and T-90 is a t-series blank audio cassette that runs for 90 min.

Patriot not Scud
Guest
Patriot not Scud
7 years 8 months ago
@Shiv: Ignore him. Just read somewhere that “not every comment deserves a response”. I am truly saddened by the viciousness of personal attacks upon you. Not one commenter, from Gens Bahri to Oberoi, have given why post-AVSC, the status has not been downgraded. What is the concept of NFSG? Who propagated it from the services? What logic did the services take to the IVth CPC? How the same logic has come to haunt them in the SCPC? I’d still stand by the fact that the IE editorial was an *excellent* piece and the petty retorts that have followed have shown… Read more »
Fighterclass
Guest
Fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

The real impact will be felt later on. Sad, but true…
____________________________________
but not in the way you think. sad.

do answer my posts at the start of the page if you are so well informed.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

fighterclas if you are so full of yourself as demonstrated, why not articulate your argument instead of sounding like a braggart?? stop passing judgement in lieu of argument because it just shows you up. tell your argument. otherwise you just sound like those fools who prowl the bharat rakshak forums, which you are probably from???

fighterclass
Guest
fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

dear idiot anon,
do look up and read my previous posts to “know” my argument.
surely I don’t have to teach a know it all like you to scroll up the page ??

fighterclass
Guest
fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago

want to know what is DDM.
please read this:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3694&start=0

especially read the news article from the 4th and 5th posts, from aroor's favourite Indian Express which carries "excellent" editorials on defence matters !
cheers !

ravikant
Guest
7 years 8 months ago
fighterclass all that you are doing is trying to mask your purile arguments by resorting the things that media normally resort to, which is to go completely off track and act like you are the cats whiskers. i have closely read your posts above and am of the opinion now that you are no better than those who go against your half-cooked knowledge of military life or how we live in it. the simple fact of the matter is to look at everything with some context and perspective. i have spent the last 13 years in the army, but i… Read more »
fighterclass
Guest
fighterclass
7 years 8 months ago
look dear fella’, it is easy as anything to claim that one is an ex-soldier out here, given that there is no way to check your credentials. all you have done is add adjectives like “puerile”, “half-cooked”, “foolish” and some comparison with VHP/RSS for added strengthening of your argument. no counterpoint, no nothing only some baseless support for the IE edit.so much for “logic” from you !in fact what you have done falls in the class of “Reductio ad Hitlerum”.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum “Ad Hitlerum can also be combined with ad hominem or personally-attacking arguments. Reasoning such as “you are wrong because Hitler… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago
lord, how many fake ids will aroor create? dear ravikant, if you are from the army, go ahead and post your service number. from your general tone – only one thing appears – fraud. and how did vhp and rss come into the picture? oh looky, looks like the previous anons comments about gujarat hit a sore note for aroor. btw, fighterclass thanks for the link. one of the BRF moderators has a good sense of humour. tracking errors in defence reporting..i almost wrote it as tracking aroors in defence reporting. and dear ravikant aka aroor, you are an absolute… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
7 years 8 months ago

A simple question ONCE again!
How does LT Col(And equivalent in other two services) qualifies to be placed in PB-3? Where as all others who were drawing pay equal/less then them in PB-4?
Rest all is ANGREJI!

ANSWER: Sheer deep rooted conspiracy of bloody Babus who are all out to spoil this nation.

Lt Gen SK Bahri
Guest
Lt Gen SK Bahri
7 years 8 months ago
It is amazing that the Army is being graded below the police and para military forces by our all knowing politicians and the IAS. I was amused when I heard an ex DGP claiming, during a discussion on a TV channel about military salaries,that police should be equated to the Army as it loses more constables in a year than the Army!Agreed, because the police officers send the poor policemen like sacrificial lambs to be killed by the Naxalites on a daily basis. I can understand the personnel on anti insurgency duty to be compensated but definitely not the IPS… Read more »
wpDiscuz

Copyright © . All rights reserved.