Friday, September 18, 2009

Indian Army Special Forces For New 9mm Pistol

The Indian Army has put out a request for information (RFI) for new semi-automatic 9mm (9x19) pistols for its Special Forces and Parachute units. According to the RFI document, the Army has detailed that it is looking for a weapon that has "the option of fixing on a laser and a high intensity flash light. It should be light weight, easy to carry and operate, robust pistol with which a Para Trooper should be able to carry out static line and free fall parachute jumps with the weapon on person/packed in the rucksack/weapon container."

The SF and Para units currently have Austrian Glock 17 and and Belgian firm Fabrique Nationale de Herstal's (FN) FN-35 9mm pistols. According to sources, the Army is expecting responses from a lot of companies which include Israeli Military Industries (SP-21 Barak) and German firm Carl Walther GmbH Sportwaffen (Walther P99).

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

Both Glock and Sig are nice. But more than the pistol itself, we need to give them tools to keep them clean and in top condition. The latest lubes and tools (no rationing, let them use as much as the troops need), and perhaps an armourer training program for those who volunteer to learn more about the small arms.

Anonymous said...

Seems like a waste of money as there are more pressing needs.

Raghava said...

What Anon@12:26am says is absolutely correct. That is the missing ingredients for India's Defence/Police/Paramilitary units to bridge the gap between what they are and what they can be...

Anonymous said...

possibly a 9mm USP derevative

captainjohann said...

Hi,
the import lobby is at it again.Some politician or big bureacrat has got his son or daughter in the PRO set up of the German/israeli firm.Within two years of this purchase, they will ask for another import.These guys will not ask for genuine light weight bullet proof jackets and genuine ight vision goggles.
How 4 terrorits could withstand an attack by 200 Marcos, is the pist0l one of the reasons sighted for their inability to kill even one!!!

Anonymous said...

They were using Beretta 9 mm. An OK weapon rarely stopped but no laser or flashlight could be fitted. It also required training as the feel was different.Accuracy of fire could only come after a lot of practice. Browning 9mm was better but that point of stoppages and armourer trg etc is true for it. Lasers and flashlights can reduce trg periods drastically and make accuracy commonplace.

Anonymous said...

Truth is always painful... Why Livefist is not covering Dr.Santhanam...?

Vincent said...

Too much counterstrike by indian babus. if you have to use your pistol in any confrontation the crap has already hit the fan. you don't ever see american soldiers with lasers or sighting junk on their pistols - its straight reflex last ditch shooting weapon.

Should buy something like the M-4 for your SWAT or else embarass yourself in front of the world again.

Anonymous said...

first phase out insas from IA.buy some genuine assualt rifle with deadly firepower.our soldiers are not expendable unlike pukis...and whats the present status of buying howitzar

Anonymous said...

INSAS is the "genuine" assault rifle !

Anonymous said...

vincent, head still stuck in your anus ? thought so ! you are an embarrassment to the human kind.

godanov said...

Steyr M-1A

Anonymous said...

@ All.

The problem with people like you is that all of you are always cynical. Always wanting - never giving. And absolutely never encouraging. Have some shame. For once support the Army and the MoD.

- Capt Karan Singh Randhawa
Bangalore.

Anonymous said...

The reason why it takes so long to kill a couple of Puki terrorists is because our forces do not have proper protective gear (think dragon skin). they are given a black shirt, a smelly जयपुरी रजाई as armor, and then ordered by coward IAS babus to go head on to kill suicidal terrorists who are spraying bullets.

Soldiers need better armor and better helmets. We all saw our 'elite' NSG wearing worse than useless ISI mark motorcyle helmets during Mumbai incident.

When the question of gear is settled, they'll need more ammunition and weapons to practice. Presently there is strict rationing on how many rounds can be used during training, and how much they train. Your typical christian racist gunloving redneck in Arizona shoots more rounds (in a variety of positions) in a week than our 'professional' soldiers shoot in 10 years of their active service. And sad truth is, although the typical redneck might not match physical fitness of armed forces, they will easily outshoot 99.99% of our soldiers, across a variety of distances in a variety of conditions.

Need to raise standards.

AK said...

There we go again. Now we need to import the 9mm pistol also. Someone tell me that we can build nuclear submarines and IRBMs but we cannot build a decent 9mm pistol. Corruption thy name is India.

Vincent said...

Capt Karan Singh Randhawa,

If you want the long-suffering people of India who are also your tax-payer and therefore boss, to gently encourage the Indian military and defence ministry like a woman of uncertain virtue, rather than giving them a huge kick up the arse for their many and sustained mistakes and incompetence over the years, thus putting the whole of India and their families in danger, you should have joined pre-school teacher training program instead of becoming a warrior, where you can encourage, cajole and cross-dress as you insist others be.

Sincerely,
First World Citizen

Anonymous said...

This idiot Paki troll who signs his posts as कपतान Karan Singh Randhawa doesn't realize the reason why people here are always critical: because the mainstream media never is, and we want things to change things in India for the better.

If you do not have the mental virility and desire to change, you can "stay positive" and delude yourself all you want that you are actually residing in the suite at a 5-star hotel. Everyone else, though, sees the truth that you are a poor, incompetent person who is forced tp live in a sewer filled gutter.

It is this same kind of delusion which allows you people to feel great while you beg for money and equipment from US, China et al. This भंगी-भिखारी syndrome has thankfully not engulfed all the minds in India like in your country, and we still hope to change. You OTOH are more than welcome to "stay positive" in your little heavenly abode.

Anonymous said...

to AK
you r absolutely right...we r trying to built nuke sub,lca,helicopter naval ship....but failed to built a nice howitzar,pistol,assualt rifle...and no one in india is trying to built these things...but why ...finsas is being built for one decade

Anonymous said...

@ Vincent
(Also applies to others)

Wow! When my course mates and I joined the Army and our respective regiments, our seniors who are Kargil veterans told us about "back seat drivers" like you. You guys behave as if you know everything about the Forces and how it should operate. But in reality you were actually too pussy to join the Army. And incase you are one of those who did try - you now blame the system for the rejection of your candidature.

Let me guess- you are neither in IAS, IFS, IPS. Nor are you a ISRO or DRDO scientist. Neither do you work for BRO. And nor are you a doctor running a charitable trust. You are one of those who grew up complaining about the "system" but did nothing to change it.
Your idea of nation building is slipping a currency note in a donation box. And your idea of patriotism is paying taxes from your ridiculously high salary that you earn from MNCs and other corporate houses.

The Army despises people like you. And if you think we die for you- then you are sadly mistaken. We die for our regiment, our Army and the founding principles of India. Which unfortunately are the same principles that you loath.

Anonymous said...

@ the person who mentioned being supportive of the Army & MoD...
Everyone of us is proud of our Armed forces, thank them for our sound sleep, and believe in their bravery & commitment

The criticism is often directed at the procurement procedures, the delays and why we dont have indigenous equipment good enough to be put to use...if the ISRO can be a competitive player in the world of space(no pun intended) , why is that work in other areas are not of similar results
and if we do produce such equipment..why dont we see them in service

Anonymous said...

Anony at 11:03pm

Touche!...i totally agree...

but the only thing that really hurts me is that our infantry/special forces need better body armour and assault rifles, sub-machine guns etc.

The guys in the army are first rate...but they need much better weapons....it is high time they got what they deserve so that they can prove Indian soldiers are the world's best.

Jai Hind.

Anonymous said...

All those projects take time to design and build but the problem is that those who dissipate information (management/media) convey the wrong perception that the systems are almost ready.

Vincent said...

10 unpalatable truths that Indians should accept


1. I like India, I really do. But as an outsider, it is easier for me from a distance to see the outrageous behavior of the Indian Ministry of Defence and the military arms stretching the Indian taxpaper and supporter like you over a barrel and violating you for what you're worth.

2. Crap is crap is crap, whether it is made in India or not. Why the need for 1100 similar test flights of LCA just to stage a show that all is well and to ensure funding continues for it? After 27 years, the engine is not ready, the radar is non-existent and we only have a Mirage 2000 derivative air frame based on the flawed doctrine of point air defence and short legs. All countries have pulled the plug on bad R&D before, shit does not taste better if processed in Indian belly.

3. Holding people to accountability esp civil servants without fainting at the sight of their civil or military rank, improves results. These people are working for you, not the other way round. In a democracy you have the right to both defer to their expertise and training in military matters while holding people in charge accountable for their lack of management skills and results. The Indian miltiary should not be a superior caste that is unquestionable.

4. The biggest problem of Indian military manfacturing is the lack of deep industrial base needed for R&D as well. To set this up however requires not accepting or simply assembling any Frankenstein plane with airframe Russian, avionics Israeli, weapons South African etc but accepting a structured, expert-driven, visionary and sometimes painful step to drawing in Indian resources, scientists, makers and foreign expertise in partnership to build long term capabilities and local defence industries of note. It means accepting you have been wrong and doing things all over.


5. This is not a game, defence, failure has severe consequences for India. While defence spending slows down growth, a loss of a war can destroy growth for decades even hundreds of years. Why is it that 50% of Indian army officers were found so obese as not able to lead their units when Kargil erupted? They are arrogant enough to parade around in peace time in uniform to get deference from Indian civilians, but come to the crunch and they're chodes.


5 more to come. The revolution for more professionalism and transparency in Indian defence has started, from Ajai's blog and Livefist. Enough! cry the people, you are not better than us and you should perform or there are younger officers who can.

Anonymous said...

@ All .

If the public prefers a fat check given by an MNC over the humble life of DRDO scientist- then dont complain.

What have you done to avoid the "procurement delays", "red tapism", "poor R&D", "poor quality indigenous hardware" etc?

You no right to complain about the system, unless you have done your part to change the system.

And for God's sake dont say that by paying your tax you are doing something great.


- Capt Karan Singh Randhawa.

ivan said...

goverment of india should upgrade it defence force with much more prority, with good infrastructure,package and better equipment, govt should promote its defence in public for better lucrative career for once future, people dont feel like joining defence forces because of its poor equipment quality and infrastructure. this make ISI agent to allow it men to target indian army, every time i see indian army die because of lack of weapons, even they have much more skills than that of pak army, goverment just runs after black money, celebrities and cricket. these people live their life like king because they know that they are safe because of our armysecuring the border.Celebrities often go to meet jawans in the border only for publicity and promoting their film: If they are told to stay even one day with the army during firing time, these will be the first people to runaway from that place, even though our jawans will remain there till end of their life for their country.

Anonymous said...

The IMI can not bid for this contract as it has been blacklisted by the defence ministry.

Anonymous said...

vincent,

where are the other 5?...we poor indians are waiting with bated breath for ur tremendous insight...pls. do hurry and help this third world country with ur nuggets...

my ass!!....

Anonymous said...

Captain is right just tax paying does relvieve all of us of our responsiblities.We ourselves are corrupt and hence want corrupt baboos to take over us .We respect and think about army personnals when they give there lives for protecting us.How many times have we genuinely doen something for them.Guys rather than complianing which is the greatest prob with all of indians we should do sth first.

Partha said...

There are number of fine 9mm pistols..

a) Glock 17
b) Sig Sauer P226
c) CZ 75 SP-01
d) FNP-9
e) Heckler & Koch USP
f) Beratta 90-Two
g) Springfield XD9
h) Walther P99
i) Ruger SR9

The list goes on.. The first three are approaved by NATO. H&K is great, and I guess the military might get it on a bulk price, but they are expensive for the quality..

In light of the recent events, I personally think, 9mm or at least 380P / .357 mag should be allowed for civilians, and civilians should be allowed to import and ccw.. it is allowed in USA..

If one tenth of our population points a gun to these buggers, they won't find a place to hide.. :)

Anonymous said...

A new 9 Millimeter Pistol.

I would manufacture the Russian Stechkin Automatic/semiautomatic Pistol in 9/19 Millimeter Luger.

Arn.Sweden.

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