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48 Comments on "Indian Navy Fighter RFI: Lockheed To Respond With Both F-35B & C"

Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Wow. Just wow. I don't want to seem like someone wowed by 'Amreekhan stuff' but the very fact that the US is offering us their most advanced fighter, in spite of the risk that the technology could find its way into Russian hands for the PAK-FA, is a big thing. The Indian navy should welcome this craft into their inventory with open arms. I've said it before, but for our future needs having more than one or two carrier-borne fighters is just a waste of logistics. Now that IAF has already decided on selecting a second fighter, let it buy… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

PAKFA, MCA & now this…i don't think this is going to happen. It will take nearly 2 more decades for first F-35 delivery. Till that time MCA would be ready & so will be its naval version.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

Sorry, but at this stage MCA exists only on paper. Development wont even begin until 2012 or so, if ever. It's intended that the technology acquired from PAK-FA/FGFA will kick-start the MCA.

Shailendra
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

Get it and Reverse Engineer it. Like Chinkis do 😀
I am not joking, once again. Buy it and get it inspected from our top scientists and engineers and IIT students and organize competition to copy it ( or even come up with better one).
Lets beat Chinkis in Copy and paste (Rather than their Copy and "Waste")

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

I think Lockheed may be willing to workout a deal to supply India Out of turn if the order was big enough.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago
Gautam , Sir Ji!Sorry, You do crave the "Amreekan Stuff"Here is why. There is no true logic behind your actions. If India has a Defence Pact with Russia – you – my dear friend find your speech patterns lit up by going "Amreekan". And Hello! The day India bids Goodbye to Russia with Love – that day being very near in the future – thanks to Dear Friends like you – Gautam Sir! And India then signs a Defence Pact with USA – Sir! Wait! – you will want to go Russian – LOL. You deal – My Dear Friend… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

so it will be Mig 29K, N-LCA, F35B/C…N-MCA
Why the circus?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

Guys, the F-35 does not exist either, just a few prototypes which fly from time to time. Very far from being inducted soon into US services. And, did you ask yourself what would be the ToT for this machine ? Zero. Look at the UK and other partners of the project. We don't even know the real capabilities and price of this toy.
That said, Prins is right: Sea Gripen is a paper plane. He could have mentioned Sea Typhoon too.

Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

Anon #6's post left me bewildered and wondering whether he was in a sober state before posting it: it isn't even clear if he is complementing or insulting me.

To the previous Anon, the F-35 'exists' about as much as the LCA mk.2 now. Several prototypes have been built and while a few years behind schedule it is likely to enter service years before the PAK-FA reaches IOC. Why shouldn't our navy have a fifth-generation fighter? Naval PAK-FA is projected only for post 2020 and being Flanker-sized will be too large to fit in any significant numbers on our aircraft carriers.

NJS
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

This one fits in IAC 2(bigger one) only , their are many years to come .

RAT
Guest
RAT
5 years 10 months ago

I WILL TAKE IT MINUS THE BUGS IN FCS AND RADAR SYSTEM AND THE SANCTIONS AND ADDIN FULL TOT AND LIFETIME SUPPLY OF SPARES AND O YES NO SUCH CLAUSES LIKE CANNOT BE USED AGAINST X AND Y

Ra
Guest
Ra
5 years 10 months ago

It is at a very premature stage. However it may certainly put a booster on Mig 29K and Naval LCA.

Priy Ranjan
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

Even if there is no TOT we should go for it … its the best plane navy can get … no other is even close to this one … time line is not a big issue coz ..i think delivery will start after 2016 or so ..as even our IAC 2 will not be ready by then

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

Well, looking at the market, is there any other available lift fan type STOVL plane other than the F35C? And one with stealth which is flying at the moment?

It is also the replacement platform for existing Harrier operators such as Spain and Italy. This alone means that it is a one horse race.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago
The F-35 is planned to be used through 2040 with the USAAF and USN budgeting to buy >60% of the long term production run of >3,000 units. Currently there are about 28 prototypes and limited production variants in service and the earliest production variants are expected to be commissioned by 2012. Lockheed worked with Yakovlev Design on the F-35B, so that's one more thing for the naysayers on this forum to chew on. India can and drive a hard bargain on the F-35 because after the US it is the largest potential customer among the many forces that have expressed… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

Just awesome !!!

I want to see SU-30 MKI, Mirage 2000-5, Mig-29(Upgraded), Eurofighter Typhoon(M-Mrca Deal), HAL-FGFA & Tejas in IAF.

And Mig-29K, F-35 or Rafale or F18 super hornet gwalior for Indian navy. This would be great combination; with this combination we can squish any enemy.

We should run very fast to finalize M-MRCA deal.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

Supposedly India this year will receive 100% MKI TOT. Does that mean India is all set to build MCA?

What technologies learnt from MKI TOT has been incorporated into LCA?

prakash
Guest
prakash
5 years 10 months ago
Does the Indian Navy really need a JSF ? Agreed the Sea-Harriers are begging to be retired, but that doesn't mean we buy hugely expensive JSFs. I think that in the Indian Ocean, Naval-Tejas and MiG-29 Ks can do the job very well for the next two decades at least. No need of JSFs. And why oh why does the Navy entertain the Sea-Gripen ? That Prims fellow is right — its just a Paper Plane ! IAF wouldn't touch a Tejas with a bargepole even if it is in the final stages of completion, but the IN is sending… Read more »
RAT
Guest
RAT
5 years 10 months ago

@ What technologies learnt from MKI TOT has been incorporated into LCA?

ITS VICE VERSA YOU WILL HAVE TO FIND THE INFORMATION ON WHAT WAS PUT INTO MKI THAT WAS DEVELOPED ON LCA AND KEEP IT TO YOUR SELF THAT IS WHY THE LCA IS VERY VALUABLE PROJECT. AND GUESS WHY INDIA ORDERED MORE 42 MKI's IT WAS CRITISED BY A USAF OFFICER EVEN THEN ANSWERS ARE OUT THERE.

Ra
Guest
Ra
5 years 10 months ago

Once T-50/FGFA arrives, F-35 may become irrelevant within the mutual interference zones.

Gautam
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Gautam
5 years 10 months ago

prakash,

In our region we don't simply need to be on par with our rivals, we need to OUTCLASS them, at least technologically, in order to maintain an advantage.

The Chinese navy is set to induct hundreds of shore and carrier based 4th generation fighters. We can't compete with those numbers. Since our naval doctrine is centred around aircraft carriers what we need is a qualitative advantage with a 5th gen stealth fighter like the F-35.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

@RAT

That's my whole point….errr… without the caps lock.

Why is it that people still feel TOT is the deciding factor when making a purchase?

RAT
Guest
RAT
5 years 10 months ago

@ Why is it that people still feel TOT is the deciding factor when making a purchase?

BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT INDIA HAS NOT DEVELOPED PREVIOUSLY AND WILL TAKE A LOT OF TIME TO START FROM SCRATCH ALSO TOT IS JUST LIKE MAKING SOME ONE A PARTNER IN THE PROGRAM EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AND AT THIS MOMENT WE CANNOT WAIT FOR DEVELOPING NEW TECHNICS ESPECIALLY WHEN OUR ENEMIES ARE AHEAD OF US SO THAT'S THE WHOLE FUSS ABOUT TOT MY FRIEND

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

I dont see the point in having 3 different types of carrier aircrafts, Mig 29K, LCA Navy and F35/Sea Gripen! Can you imagine the maintenance nightmare. Has the Navy not learned anything from the IAF

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

"Once T-50/FGFA arrives"

I somehow have a feeling, T-50 has ways to go before making it makes F35 grade.

amit
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amit
5 years 10 months ago

when will te m-mrca deal will be finalised .i cant sleep neither can i concentrate on my studies.the deal comes even in my dreams .help .sos .i will probably go mad if this deal is not completed this year .shiv help .anyone help .please update something about the deal .helllllppppppp…………

rajiv
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

What purpose these expensive latest generation military hardware serve. Do we even have the balls to use them.Pakistan doesn't have any thing to match our fighter jets but has it stopped them from waging a proxy war against us. And about china i better not say a word. Instead of spending billion dollars on weapons we should instead spend them on the poor of our country and give some money to the poor of Africa dying of hunger. May their blessing would save us from our blood thirsty warmonger devils very own neighbor.

Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Gautam, I think we DO NOT need the F-35. IAF seems to be exploring it merely because the MoD has a flush of funds. Any Navy would like to "get its hands" on the F-35. But only because we are a potential "ally" and have funds, thats why Lockheed is entertaining the Indian Navy. Buying latest weapons does not make for a strong nation alone. For example, Saudi Arabia has Typhoons and F-15 eagles also. Yet, it is not seen as a "powerful" country. Similarly, in a few years' time even Pakistan may be offered the Eurofighter and the latest… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago
Excuse me Rajiv, I beg to differ with U….A country can live without food, but not without honour…And honour lies in security…The world runs on one simple theory.."MIGHT IS RIGHT"…So if u need a place in this world, u got to have the best guns in ur belt…We shud churn the maximum out as long as US is on our side….This is our best opportunity…And besides we can reverse engineer the F-35s to improve our own N-MCAs and N-FGFAs.. And as per our naval ambitions, IAC 2 is suppose to b CATOBAR design close to the Anglo-French carriers…So Russian birds… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

guys take this with a pinch of salt…after all the same guy said pak f-16 where no coming with CFT's….guess what? they are.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago
India will eventually build N-LCA, N-MCA and many more variations BUT until LCA and MCA are effective weapons, the army/navy will need stop gap solutions. If India is going MRCA route, then the F35 should be on the list. I don't see the point in having 120+ planes of a totally different type that are at the same or lower category compared to MKI. In any war with China, the F35 will always be at the back of their minds. To them it will be an unknown factor. If Lockheed agrees for faster delivery, F35 will be the best stop… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

@RAT

never mind.

Gautam
Guest
Gautam
5 years 10 months ago

Abdhid, let's be realistic here. Neither N-LCA, nor MCA(if and when it ever reaches IOC), nor even naval T-50 will ever have the capability of PAK-FA.

And what exactly makes for a strong military other than weapons? Great pilots? We have that, but how is that going to help when China brandishes its 200+ naval fighters? The Indian navy needs a 5th gen fighter. No amount of patriotism will give the same benefit.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

I fully agree with Abhid, we should stop thinking of imports and concentrate on indeginous manufacture. County like INDIA, which has huge army should not import and depend on others. We cannot become atleast regional power if we do that.
We have started the indigenous development, let that continue.
We should develop our own onces in no time.
Also i heard that US gives inferior stuff to its customers and it programs the software in such a way that the weapon cannot be used against US.

Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Anonymous @3:09, the F-35 is meant for IAC, which will not roll out before 2015. By that time, the N-Tejas will be ready and rearing to go. So there goes your argument about F-35 being a so called stop-gap fighter. And Gautam, you please don't unnecessarily worry about 200+ Chinese naval fighters. Chinese navy does NOT have a single aircraft carrier. They'll have their first one only by 2015, and that too its unlikely to start meandering in the Indian Ocean any time soon. Till that time, our Gorshkov and IAC-1 equipped with N-Tejas and MiG-29Ks will be able to… Read more »
Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
A little clarification. In my previous post I meant to say 'Neither N-LCA, nor MCA, nor even naval T-50 will ever have the overall capability of F-35' Abhid, if you've followed the relevant news sources(and it seems you haven't) you'll know that the PLAN, even today, has more fighters(Su-30MKKs and J-11s) than the Indian Navy. Currently they're all stationed on shore, but they are highly capable fighters, arguably more so than the MiG-29K. They're already testing a carrier-borne version with plans to build at least 50-60. I'm not repeating myself for no reason, I'm stating fact while you're giving an… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

We all have suffered much heartburn on Arjun failure only to see the tank prove itself.

We all have suffered much heartburn on Akash only to see the missile being accepted by Army & IAF.

Ditto with MKIs when the first batch was late and then the squadrons started building up nicely.

Angi-3 anyone?

Are turbofan and a good naval fighter truly problems that cannot be overcome without prejudice to the current heartburn?

– Manne

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
5 years 10 months ago

I do not comprehend this stupidity. If F35 is available for Navy, why on eart are Lockheed Martin offering F-16 for MMRCA? Why is IAF even considering F-16 and other 4th gen aircraft if F-35 is available?

Could it be that F-35 is not really available, and this is just a carrot to lure us dumb Indians to buy F-16s?

/sarcasm

Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Gautam, you are regurgitating Falsehoods throughout :- 1) PLAN does NOT operate J-11s and J-10s. There is NO naval J-10 or J-11 in service or even planned by PLAN. It operates old MiG-21 derivatives like J-7E and cold-war JH-7A bombers from its Eastern Coast, all directed towards Taiwan and Japan. Don't worry, they are NOT carrier capable. 2) Please stop saying that LCA Tejas is only an Air-Force plane. You think DRDO is thrusting the N-Tejas down the IN's throat ? The IN itself inquired about the feasibility of a N-Tejas to ADA a few years back. ADA did a… Read more »
Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

And I already explained exactly why the N-LCA is unsuited for Navy needs vis a vis the rest. You don't believe me because of your faith in it in general, so there is no point repeating myself and being accued of 'regurgitating falsehoods' again by people like you.

Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Abhid You arrogantly accuse me of spreading falsehoods without doing any research yourself… or perhaps you know but don't want to concede an argument in which case you're the one spreading falsehood. Here is the most basic source of them all.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK#Su-30MK2 Su-30MK2"With its improved avionics, the MK2 was designed for more dedicated use as a maritime strike aircraft, thus these aircraft ordered by China are currently being operated by the Naval Air Force." http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/su30.asp "The third batch, which consisted of 24 examples of the upgraded Su-30MKK2 variant, was delivered to the PLA Naval Air Force (PLANAF) in August 2004." http://military.globaltimes.cn/china/2010-05/531084.html… Read more »
Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Abhid You arrogantly accuse me of spreading falsehoods without doing any research yourself… or perhaps you know but don't want to concede an argument in which case you're the one spreading falsehood. Here is the most basic source of them all.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK#Su-30MK2 Su-30MK2"With its improved avionics, the MK2 was designed for more dedicated use as a maritime strike aircraft, thus these aircraft ordered by China are currently being operated by the Naval Air Force." http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/su30.asp "The third batch, which consisted of 24 examples of the upgraded Su-30MKK2 variant, was delivered to the PLA Naval Air Force (PLANAF) in August 2004." http://military.globaltimes.cn/china/2010-05/531084.html… Read more »
Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

Oops ! Navy ordered 3 Tejas and not 3 Squadrons.

The error is DEEPLY regretted.

Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
OK. About the J-11Bs, the first public sightings were reported by Janes Defence only 30 days back, so I missed that. I now agree you are correct about J-11. Prior to that, there was NO report of PLANAF having J-11 (or even the much touted J-10C. J-10C exists only on Chinese jingo forums). PLAN has only 24 Su-30 MK2. No further orders are there, as PLAN is not interested in it. And that too these are shore based and NOT carrier capable. What will they possibly do to IN ? PLAN was caught in the J-15, because Russia has accused… Read more »
Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Abhid, you are clutching at straws and plugging your fingers in your ears. Do you think those Navy-painted J-11s are for display only? Do you think China is going to stop J-15 simply because Russia found out they reverse-engineered them(just like they've reverse-engineered dozens of other systems over the years? In case you haven't realised this yet this is a long-standing Chinese practice). Fact is at present the PLANAF is actually better off than the Indian navy's air arm. Right now neither of us has aircraft carriers(with Viraat in refit and neither Vikramaditya nor IAC likely to arrive before 2014)… Read more »
Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Gautam, you are making a fundamental mistake comparing PLANAF's shore based fighters with IN's carrier based fighters. In India, only IAF operates shore based fighters, and not IN. A correct comparison would therefore be between PLANAF's shore-based fighters with IAF's shore fighters, and between PLANAF's (non-existent) carrier fighters with IN's carrier fighters. As I pointed out earlier, most of PLANAF consists of MUSEUM PIECES like J-7 and JH-7A. They're simply meant to keep an eye on Taiwan and disputed islands with Japan. And for the nth time, they're NOT carrier capable and CANNOT fly to the Indian ocean. Besides, the… Read more »
Abhid-d
Guest
5 years 10 months ago

This the link to the news article which has Navy Capt. J Maolankar's comments on Tejas :

http://frontierindia.net/lca-tejas-crosses-1000-sorties-landmark

Gautam
Guest
5 years 10 months ago
Thanks for distorting the content of my post to make it look like I was confused. What made you think the Indian navy's MiG-29Ks are carrier-based right now? They are land-based just like the Chinese Su-30s and J-11s whose existence you are consistently ignoring. And your opinion(not fact) on the J-15's failure is naive. Firstly, the Russians are obviously not going to praise a Chinses clone of their products. Quoting a Russian 'genera;l' on how great a Chinese aircraft that's still in the testing stage isn't going to earn you any credibility. If you've read about this around the net… Read more »
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