Saturday, June 26, 2010

The Stealth In India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)

The official CAD images above, from the Advanced Projects & Technologies (AP&T) directorate of India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) provide further perspective on the low-observable design elements that are known to be going into India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), known for a while now to be a stealth aircraft concept. Serpentine air intakes (with minimum flow distortion and robust pressure recovery) and internal weapons bays, depicted in the images above, are some of the most critical nose-on low observability design elements going into the programme.

As part of the multidisciplinary design optimization (MDO) currently on for the AMCA -- a wind tunnel model of which was first publicly displayed at AeroIndia 2009 -- that design-based stealth features will include further optimized airframe shaping, edge matching, body conforming antennae and a low IR signature through nozzle design, engine bay cooling and work on reduced exhaust temperature. RAMs, RAPs, special coatings for polycarbonate canopy and precision manufacturing will all be part of the effort to make the AMCA India's first stealth airplane.

With aerodynamic design optimisation near complete, the AMCA's broad specifications are final. The aicraft will have a weight of 16-18 tons [16-18 tons with 2-tons of internal weapons and 4-tons of internal fuel with a combat ceiling of 15-km, max speed of 1.8-Mach at 11-km. The AMCA will be powered by 2 x 90KN engines with vectored nozzles. For the record, the official ADA document that will finally be processed this year by the government towards formal project launch describes the AMCA as a "multirole combat aircraft for air superiority, point air defence, deep penetration/strike, special missions".

An earlier post on the AMCA is here.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

And like all other projects, our Sarkari company will float a tender for foreign co-operation in this also while our babus eat their tiffin.

AK said...

First finish the LCA mk2 and then take on this challenge!

In fact this project seems like a complete waste of time and money.

India should now fully concentrate on UAV technology. With whatever we have right now plus MMRCA we can easily defend our skies for a next few decades. By then UAVs will be the king of the skies. What's the point of this aircraft then?

Anonymous said...

The MCA is going to be sooo good! Much like after the experience of building Dhruv, the LCH came out much better than expected! Go DRDO!

Anonymous said...

People criticizing DRDO's efforts at collaboration with foreign firms have probably never been in an engineering project before. At the end of the day, what is important is the completion of the overall fighting platform on schedule, not whether it is 100% indigenous or not. The indigenization effort can't be allowed to hold up product delivery. This is what the Armed Forces have been saying for years.

Rahul said...

Thanks Shiv.....A request please add captions.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that ADA has moved from a delta-wing design (look up the MCA page on wikipedia for the very first preliminary designs), to a design that is almost a copy of the F-22A Raptor.
Which is a good thing.
Its better to rip off proven technologies than to reinvent the wheel.

lspk said...

when does ADA think it can roll out the AMCA ?

Will the more powerful kaveri-snecma engine be ready by then?

Will the AESA radar PLANNED to be developed for LCA be ready so it can also be integrated with AMCA ?

Is it gonna be 100% indigenous ( avionics , etc) or will there be any foreign sub-system as in the proposed AURA programme for the UCAV ?

I checked in Wikipedia ... other than being lighter than f-22 & pak-fa (if its in 16 -18 tn range)
it doesn't come out even as 2nd best acc. to any of the specs.

Shiv could you also give an update on arjun mk-2 & lca mk-2?

Is the DRDO going to develop a future MBT or is the arjun mk-2 gonna be the future MBT ?

Is the DRDO working on an APS suite for arjun mk-2?

Under the AURA programme is ADA gonna develop just 1 kind of UCAV or diff type (like a whole new range of MALE , HALE UAV's & UCAV's) ?

Anonymous said...

Oh, polycarbonate canopy sounds very interesting. Why the departure?

Anonymous said...

Anon@9:35. Do you have any clue of the effort that has already gone into the LCA and related projects? What makes an anonymous mouse on the Internet talk about extremely well educated folks who have sacrificed careers in corporations for smaller salaries and national interest? Cheer the effort, will you?

Anonymous said...

this different from the indian version of the russian fifth gen fighter right?

Anonymous said...

minus all the crap, I am optimistic and I suppport the effort

Anonymous said...

Thats Great... Can you give us some latest information on the AVTAR RLV project please

Anonymous said...

Those criticizing DRDO's indigenous efforts should realize that even the Russian Missiles have Texas Instrument Chips!!
No country can afford to develop 100% indigenous eqp. All the countries are sharing knowledge and expertise with one another. Abrams tank has tech of Britain (armor), Germany (Gun) and other countries. Israel's Merkava is also a development of a British tank.
USA's latest Chopper the Lakota looks like a replica of our Dhruv. Reason for their similarity is both have been designed by the same German company! Russia collaborated with Italy for their latest subs.
We are still an infant learning to crawl. What's the harm if we take the support of grown ups in this field?? After all can you learn without the help of good teachers?

the terminator said...

Anon@11.11
You are right on the dot. Ill informed bashers of indeginous efforts with a view to demoralise or scuttle them should be told off in no uncertain terms.

Hiding behind an anonymous cloak and spewing sarcasm does not in any way encourage Indian scientists and engineers from weaning the country off its foreign dependence.

Anonymous said...

It looks a bit like the much speculated JF-17 Mk2, except for the use of 2 engines and the use of conventional intakes instead of DSI.

parroting said...

people seem to behave as if they understand the "design" process. well they are always allowed to ask unnecessary question. specially on the post or blog like this...which is good...it clears of the crap...and whatever goes ahead in form of doubt is much more clearer...

i think its good time to start AMCA. as it'll mature with time. and give us key experience again in building future gadgets for our industry and armed forces...in recent times...if we don't push ourselves...some nations will move to such a stage that...they'll become untouchable and will start holding the destiny of many nations...so we need to push in technology sector...one more thing...if someone asks that, what about lca mk2,UAV...after AMCA launched....i think they should check the word multitasking in the dictionary....for multi role organisation like DRDO.

Anonymous said...

Onle two LGB's and 4 Long range SAM's? I assume there are 2-4 IR short range SAMs.

Is this loadout of much use? It seems to be too little to me.

What is that in the wing, another fuel tank or a radar just like the T-50?

Anonymous said...

Should this information be on public forums? (rhetorical, not literal question)

Anonymous said...

2 ton internal weapons for a deep strike aircraft?
atleast 3 - 4 tons will be logical.

amit said...

i completly support drdo ripping of other countries technology .if the chinese can rip off .why cant we ??? after all we arent stealing .we are just reverse enginering it. :-)

Anonymous said...

Just a few silly designs and the party is on.
Mr. Terminator - You are looking for trouble - Sir! and you will find it in your life. You know nothing excepting choosing the right sides, and pouring English Language - of which you know almost nothing.
By the way, Terminator is a great lead on your profile, than Anonymous. Focus on the article - Buddy!
Why should you not permit constructive criticism against DRDO? Does "Way to Go - DRDO" help? Are you their salesman with personal profit to make?
You were probably the one condemning the Arjun Tank,AGNI-III praising the LCA, Dhruv, LCH - in short being the head chief commentator and running the destinies of how Indians should behave?
Keep asking those silly questions which you should attempt to find an answer to yourself.
You know who I am. There are many who like to clone me. That is what you are good at - all of you.
Cloning people, issuing threats which you cannot back up, and vomitting rhetoric.
Let me wise you freaks on something. Keep your praises, giggles and tears for your family.
If you have something to offer as information - present it forth.
Rather than - "I see a shaft below the nozzle - it looks like F-22. We should not reinvent the wheel. Every nation borrows from another. USA has copied the Dhruv. The reason the designs are similar is that the company that designed the Dhruv is German."
Just goes to prove what I have always maintained.
Dont get too cocky if you know C#, .NET, ADO, XML, T-SQL.
And remember, keep DRDO, ISRO out of it. They owe you nothing. You all are renegades like Ajai Shukla, etc. You want US weaponry and feel happy selling and buying philosphy.
Enjoy making enemies and turning the Excel Pivot Table back and forth - It does pass time.
Good Luck!

Ra said...

With the inclusion of HAL Tejas, MMRCA, Sukhoi Su-30MKI, AMCA, T-50 and FGFA our forces are going to be definitely stronger. Welcome step for AMCA.

Anonymous said...

Are there any indications as to when this is expected to be inducted? In neither of the 2 posts you have made, you have mentioned this.

In the older post, you mentioned that there is no backup plan to the engine should the kaveri/snecma fail to arrive. what then? will we have to wait another decade or 2 while something else is retro-fitted?

Anonymous said...

will they put a lightening pod in it as it is going to be a multi role aircraft. so my question is where are they goin to place it? will it be like the f 35 in the nose so the pod does not compromise the stealth. Shiv can u also give some info about the radar goin to be used. Will it be
a distributed radar system. I hope it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyways all the questions aside i give all my best my wishes to all the people working on this plane :))))))))))))

Anonymous said...

i like the project..nd its to proud..
But i'm not happy wit livefist puting all imp info online..first up al india's nuclear submarn' image nd now mca disgn...it like gavin al hint to enmz

Anonymous said...

Well looking at what the engineers are developing can we expect some of these tech in the LCA mk2??????
Will the changes in LCA mk2 be similar to the changes brought in F-15SE??? as that will get the LCA somewhat near to a 5th generation aircraft and will suite the airforce better even 10 to 15 yrs down the lane.
Also the fact that the aircraft rolls out in 2014 should provide the ADA sufficient time to integrate whatever 5th gen tech they develop by that time.
Doing so, the 4 years time for mk2 will become more justified.
just hoping that they do bring in those tech upgrades in mk2

Shailendra said...

Guys,
I think there are very good people on this web site. And they come from many backgrounds. Like I come from Computers. Why not some of us think to make something which can help our nation to rise faster. We all have strong passion for defense (NO attack, but defense). We need a place where we can guide our young generation to be scientists, engineers designers and whatever which can contribute to defense. Anyone agree with me ?

the terminator said...

Anon@12.57
I was just supporting Anon@11.11. In no way did I point a finger at your drivel. Stop threatening. It does not serve any purpose. BTW I have been and am still an avid supporter of indigenous efforts, by DRDO or any other entity which would help India to save foreign exchange and at the same time provide employment to Indians instead of bailing out production houses in the west that are on the verge of closing down their assembly lines.

Don't go off at a tangent and deride others of their language skills when yours is nothing to gloat about. Learn to be polite, civil and courteous even if you are not face to face with the person whose opinions differ from yours.

Have a good day and chill down.

P.S. I chose 'the terminator' nom de guerre not to terminate guys like you in a forum but just as a convenient handle.

Anonymous said...

Shailendra@12:32AM
Great thought...
I agree, that this pool of talent can do a lot of good things for those who fight to save us.
What the need is a platform and a leader to guide.

Anonymous said...

Just 2 tons of weapon load. Will it be able fulfill the role of Deep Penetration Strike bomber? As per my best knowledge, it is slated to replace Jaguar & Mig 27.

Shailendra said...

@Anonymu 10:44 AM
Buddy, why not to make a web site, where we invite people for writing articles for guiding for defense ?

See may be I have not all my thoughts at place right now, but I think people here can have more like me. Believe me we all have good intentions, and if we can be united we will be helping so many. I always watch videos on youtube for F35 and other things, and my family says why you do not design a fighter plan ( sometime they just pinch me :)) But why I can not ? at least I can inspire and motivate youth to do that

Shailendra said...

Read this news
http://www.aero.iitb.ac.in/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=42

The organisers included the US department of defence.
And where the hell DRDO or MOD were ?

This is what is called as talent hunt, after few years these students will fly to US and will be involved in some cutting edge tech like F 35. Why we do not have such a environment ?

Anonymous said...

It’s pretty strange to see that how in order to brag about themselves (not saying that it’s a bad thing) our defence establishments end up shooting their mouths off by releasing sensitive information about crucial projects publicly.

How much information of similar type about F-22 or F-35 or F-117 (and lets go back in time and even consider the F-16) was available to the world before they were deployed??? I guess almost non-existent rather than sort of details posted by from the Advanced Projects & Technologies (AP&T) directorate of India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

Anonymous said...

It’s pretty strange to see that how in order to brag about themselves (not saying that it’s a bad thing) our defence establishments end up shooting their mouths off by releasing sensitive information about crucial projects publicly.

How much information of similar type about F-22 or F-35 or F-117 (and lets go back in time and even consider the F-16) was available to the world before they were deployed??? I guess almost non-existent rather than sort of details posted by from the Advanced Projects & Technologies (AP&T) directorate of India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

Gaurab said...

Shailendra@10:06PM
OK thats fine but how do you think we will be able to guide i.e how will the ideas reach the stage where the actual decision making(for the forces) takes place.
I would like to know the road map for such a venture.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shailendra,

I am ready to develop site,decide the name, book the domain,push a message here, i will start work.


thank you

Anonymous said...

What do you guys think about 1) AMCA should have internal room for at least 2 more AA missiles since it is ment to penerate enemy territory deeply; 2) current plan should center around Israel AESA radar and Eurojet EJ200 engine. And later replace EJ2oo and Israel AESA radar with kaveri and indigenous AESA radar when they are ready.

Brahma said...

The biggest stealth feature seems to be the absence of a vertical stabilizer, one of the heaviest contributors to the RCI profile of an aircraft. Designing an aircraft without those though, brings about a million computing headaches, which is why indigenous agencies are going to have to come up with a much more powerful flight computer than they are used to deploying on most IAF aircraft.

Anonymous said...

The Indian MCA project (now AMCA) is a joint Indo-Russian(MiG) project n NOT a wholly Indian endeavor as made out to be. Here is the Link in suuport of the above:

http://www.ato.ru/content/migs-fifth-generation-fighter-builds-new-momentum

Anonymous said...

It make me feel proud.
I am sure all those people who are saying that the delay and high cost behind tejas are not aware of the level of complexity behind such a high tech flying machine. Tejas is a big learning phase in indian aviation industry. I can surely say that the next fighter craft (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)) would take much less time and less development cost. As happened in case of HAL Dhruv to LCH. Dhruv took a long time to come up, while LCH came within 2 years !!! because of the know how to develop a helicopter was already available for LCH.

And all those who talk about full indigenous crap, should know that its not possible because of the patented technologies used in many products, u can not make them even if you are capable of !! Secondly why reinvent the wheel, use the available components and make proper use of it !!! thats intelligent. Once you have the aircraft in production line, you can gradually develop manufacturing facility of foreign origin products on your own, but first focus on get the thing to fly OKAY !!!

Also best wishes to "National Civil Aircraft Programme". I have faith in Madhavan Nair :)

Go India Go !

Anonymous said...

Nice.

Good luck India.

Anonymous said...

ADA, HAL & TEAM NEED TO OPERATIONALISE
LCA WHICH IS STILL NOT IN THE FINAL STAGE (WITH DELAY AFTER DELAY)

THEN THEY SHOULD WORK FOR AMCA.

OTHERWISE AMCA WOULD BE FOR ANOTHER
20 YEARS BEFORE BEGINING ITS FIRST FLIGHT TRIALS.

IN THE MEANWHILE, THE IAF WILL CONTINUE TO BUY FOREIGN MADE JETS/PLANES. GOOD !!

Anonymous said...

The AMCA will roll out by 2014. The Indian version two-seat FGFA will also roll out in that same year (if not in 2013). IAF would induct the first of the batch of 50 Russian-version PAK FAs by 2015, FGFA first flight could be by 2013-2014, and AMCA first flight by 2016-2017, FGFA & AMCA would be inducted into IAF from year 2020. Good, real good...i think this decade in Indian skies is going to be very hot...three stealth fighters showing up...i just hope everything goes as per schedule.

Prodyut said...

To make a stealth aircraft is very challenging.To make a stealth combat aircraft is a "no-hoper" if one is going to maintain any worthwhile time scale. It seems we are treading the LCA - world class- and MiG replacement-path again.As Einstein said "It is stupidity to repeat the same thing and expect different results".

I thought a cranked LE is anti stealth but the model shows just that.Hmmm...

Finally stealth requires internal weapons carriage which means a large draggy airframe and a large easy to hit target.Is stealth or perhaps "super stealth" ( a little cosmetic angling does no harm)another of those fashionable marketing ploy? I have been an Aircraft nut long enough to see many such come and go after being dropped like ahot potato.
Prodyut

Anonymous said...

PEOPLE WHO ARE JEALOUS MAKE UNNECESSARY COMMENTS.ALL THE BEST DRDO

Anonymous said...

I feel it is very expensive to upgrade the mirages for 41 million dollars a piece almost same cost of the Tejas MK2 . It is equally expensive evan to but rafale , it is fourth generation technology.It is costly a lot right now and avionics upgrade is needed every 7-8 years. If Dassault is looting 41 million for mirage upgrade they would loot 100 million plus for rafale upgrade.Rafale would be made available beyond 2018 so why not to develop AMCA with GE 414 IN5S6 engines and develop it with the more advanced version of AESA radar which is being developed for Tejas MK 2. This all process can be developed in 5 years if they plan now and in 6-8 months fly the prototypes. It would be cheaper and better to upgrade the homegrown fighter.I feel it is high time take help from Japan as well as Korea as they are also in need of a fighter due to china's posturing in the china sea.Rafale has obsolete underpowered engine.Stop the production of Tejas MK1 and go directly to AMCA.The money remains at home and if a determined effort is made we can have a world beater.

TIMBAKTOO