Photos Courtesy DPR Defence
OMG! looks like WWII !
Billions of dollars being spent on tanks, ships and fighter jets but the typical army jawaan still rushes into battle with nothing more than his wits and his family's prayers. World over, the face of the warfare has changed yet the equipment fit of the Indian army jawaan remains pathetic. Such bravado-filled, socialistic era army displays may have impressed the folk of yesterday but today's information technology-enabled informed public knows better and instantly compares the look and equipment fit of the indian jawaan with his contemporaries abroad and unanimously gives it's valued judgement --- "BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"Sigh! I love the internet.
Shiv! What are the jawaans carrying in the bags on their back? Their tiffin boxes? These jawaans look just like the jawaans in an Indian Army poster which used to hang in my school's NCC meeting room back in the 1980s. Seriously... when will this army start looking like a modern army?!!!
They are certainly better than the Vietcongs in all respects. I wish them all success.
Our poor jawans are used as cannon fodder but our big fat and HONEST generals.... Our armed forces need an overhaul just like our entire country!Pramendra
WTF!!! I thought such battle charges were ancient history...last seen during 1965 Indo-Pak war. I am not at all impressed by such antics. Really who is commanding the Western Command! Some old general is it? Seems like Cannon-fodder to me or worse...LMG-Fodder. What a shame and waste of resources....! Damn these army generals.
Huh this pic is funny.Wonder how advanced the Chinese or Pakistani army is in terms of Combat armor and weapons?
you boys need to pay more taxes...anyway looks like things are stirring...have a read of this...maybe BR boys need to comment:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df01.html
WWII.....I agree, although every soilder one day will need to charge down a retreating enemy or move quickly to a forward position so the charge is very valid. Thats why they teach soilders to run.Anyway, cant anything be done for the transformation of the army that will take less then 27 years. We keep hearing the fancy projects spouted by the DRDO of future infantry soilder, (super light clothing, interconnectd communications, boots, helmet blah blah etc).However, at this pace everyone else like China will have robots fighting us and we will still have that crazy looking INSAS.At least the men look motivated and the Dhuruv looks good. Give the men a decent pair of boots and some flak jackets please!10/4 out
well i seen american soldiers too rushing in same way but in straight line in iraq streets
I am not at all impressed by such antics.Funny. That's what Ayub Khan said in 1965 (long before you were born), Chinxi Chong in 1968, that's what Niazi said in 1971, as with as with Xingi Dong in 1987 and as with Messaraff in 1999. All those guys are still maalishing the pasting they earned courtesy the Indian Army! As for of course the assorted piglet scum in the Kashmir Valley, they aren't on this earth to moan their fate. The Indian Army is the only Army in the world to have liberated another nation since WW2. While you keyboard commandos of the chairborne brigade are busy playing Halo, the Indian Army is busy kicking your wazoo!
I thought bullet proof jacket is part of the standard fitment. Looks like these guys are running with any rations too. It is okay in one aspect, as these are not expeditionary units and in today's world, war is not going to last long. But then, at least they should have water rations. I am not sure what they carry in their back packs. Also, it looks like things in the back packs are not easily accessible. While comparing with american or any western counterpart, Indian soldier is certainly under fitted.Waiting for FINSAS program to pick up. Atleast IA should implement FINSAS for its airbourne troops and see how it works.
I appreciate all the sentiments expressed herein as both sides contain some degree of truth.Indian Army's efforts to procure modernity and efficiency have been scuttled by the DRDO and MoD for all reasons at their disposal. As if they are not enough, the political bosses too join in.They want a rag tag Army so what can the Generals do? Those abusing generals must think of it..Empower them and then shoot them if they do not deliver. Why abuse the old distinguished man who gave his entire life fighting with whatever he had and still ensured you bums are secure.Do not be that cynically ungrateful. Hold your horses before joining the INTERNET road rages
Guys - chill. This more or less what's shown in most 'public' demonstrations. I remember a very public video of a C130 disgorging Land Rovers - probably the IAT or Farnborough - reversing and then taking off; in the real world I doubt a C130 would do that. It just looks impressive to the 'aam janta'. I am sure that the 'real' warfighting capabilities will be hardly put on display. Lets not forget that there are annual wargames where the 'real war' is fought - now THAT is where we ought to be and we can judge the real capabilities from that. AS ANON 9:41 said above, the Indian Army has been kicking serious butt on a wide range of fronts and is probably the most experienced army in the world when it comes to counter insurgency - along with the Israelis (assorted insurgents) and the British (mainly IRA).
KVR,The Indian Army's tactical doctrine is the best evolved today for every situation imaginable involved except perhaps highly mechanized maneuver. I can't understand why the Israeli military gets any credit at all. It is a bully military like the Roman legions of history - good for fighting peasants that's all. It's counter-terror units are another matter, but we are not talking of their military then.There's a good reason these chairborne commandos stalk Livefist, because it offers them a forum to talk nonsense hiding behind anonymous monikers. On BRF this sort of fact-free nonsense is exterminated in a matter of minutes. The keyboard commandos are such pipsqueaks...ANON 9:41
I agree with KVR. This is just a display for media and the consumption of the assembled audience. The setting with a fort like wall in the background and perfectly manicured grounds is just fit for giving such inane displays.Had it been a movie we would have heard shouts of "har har mahadev" and/or "jo bole so nihal" as well :)take it easy.
hahaha this pics are so funny ! look at them charge into battle like it was WW1 ! I pity these guys who are ready to die for india but our babus dont mind sending them to the slaughterhouse.MPatel, the RATshakers have already provided all the details you need. If only you visited their site..
@ ANON 9:41hey dude, you speak as if you are at DMO office... Don't forget that BRF is also a keyboard corps with copyNpaste generals...
I like the last picture - open your mouth and say 'Aah'
Indian Army is racist bloated corrupt over staffed relic of colonial era. The salaries and pensions itself account for a huge chunk of the "defense" budget. Those going gaga over defense need to understand that expenditure on defense leads to no returns. It's like a black hole that consumes resources without giving anything in return except a sense of "security". Excess expenditure on defense was one of the main reasons for collapse of USSR's economy and it's subsequent dismemberment. India is following the same trajectory with corrupt netas-babu-sipahi troika which is only interested in making hay as long the Sun shines.We need to cut the strength of our Army by half. This will free up funds for investment in defense R&D which is the need of the hour and which may in turn lead to a healthy defense industry in India creating jobs and much needed wealth.
the only thing i want to say is....our Dhruv in first picture looks beautiful.....
ANON 8:57 PM,BRF webmasters include published defence studies authors, aero/ME/EE/CS/Nuke Physics profs, aeromedicine doctors etc., In other words well regarded experts who have corresponded with Indian as well foreign military officers and experts (including one PAF veteran). The fact that you don't have even a fake ID, says everything about your credentials - rather the utter lack of any competence whatsoever. So how about piping down?ANON 9:41
Shiv,You have not allowed my last comment which was free of abusive words but contained unpalatable truth. There are very few good and honest journalists left. Please don't join the ranks of Burkha Dutt (parrot whatever Nira Radia tells her for some money - and she is known as most "bold" TV journalist). In the Country of the Blind the One-Eyed Man is King.
@ ANON 9:41Yes, I don't have an fake ID and it certainly tells me about my credentials. Ha ha.. shot at your own foot.Talking about the BRF webmasters... I don't see any army / navy / airforce veterans in the published list of web masters. I don't understand what those profs (list mentioned by you) have to do with the operational & planning of army doctrines. Even if you see the policy of BRF, you can't join if you have only free email IDs. Where in the world does military provide email ID for all its personals...Only s/w junkies or other junkies who considered themselves as wikipedia educated defence experts have such an ID and are only eligible to be a BRF forum member. That entry condition itself will says where BRF is void of any defence experts.I can vouch that IA's doctrines are as good. But what I can't digest is that one keyboard soldier like you accusing others as a keyboard soldiers and more to that you are courting BRF to add value to your point of view....
@ANON 9:41,If you love the RATshaker forum so much, why are you here commenting with "non-experts"? Do you fear you are not good enough for your RATshaker brethren?The fact remains that the IA and the defence forces in general is highly bureaucratic and the babus dont give a damn about developing them into world class institutions. Time after time, there are so many cases of negligence and half assed attempts. The Dhruv itself has problems because HAL can't be bothered to sort it out (for details look at a previous post by Shiv).They would rather buy something from the US or Russia than develop it through private partnerships within india because they get bribed. This sort of charging is not done anywhere.. unless you want to speak of omaha beach.
@annon 10:03 PMBrother,It is expenditure on Defense which gives you freedom to wite such a piece on this blog..Or you would be cooking for someone in a Talibani ghetto..May be someting else..Freedom of alternatives is the cornerstone of Liberty. Expenditure on Defense provides you an alternative.
ANON 7:29 PM and ANON 8:08 PM- I don't use a fake ID here, and I don't spout ignorant whines like you guys do. Difference.-Check out all the articles penned by Indian veterans for BR - some exclusively.-It makes a difference when you are a prof in one of these disciplines, especially when you consult for a helicopter manufacturer or teach at Georgetown or Naval Postgraduate School-It makes a difference when Sunil Dasgupta pens an ignorant whine (in India Today in early 2000) criticising Indian generals for asking their men to "charge up the hill slopes of Kargil" showing what an utter moron he is. And it gets worse when the full fury of superior knowledge on BRF forces him to make amends in the same magazine a few weeks later.-BRF restricts free email ID posters. In the earliest days it was to keep the Paki trolls out. Nowadays it helps keep other trolls out as well.The life of trolls like yourselves on BRF is about 3 hours, and we love taking apart guys like you. Get a real ID and your arguments over and we will teach you some manners. Till then pipe down. ANON 9:41
Anon 9.22 PMHow is exp on defense related to my personal freedom?And How exp on defense provides me an "alternative" which is the cornerstone of "liberty"?You are sounding like George Bush Jnr, Fighting 3 trillion $ war for "freedom" which has indirectly led to this global recession where people are losing lot more than "freedom" i.e. the shirt on their backs and roof over their heads.
@ ANON 9:41enough of it, cobber.It is true that keyboard colonels like those in BRF will have a problem in having a real Major like me between them. I am not denying that veterans have written for BRF. May be BRF copy & pasted it in their forums from somewhere. See you are not understanding it properly, I am saying that BRF admins & members are not veterans or have no experience in military affairs. Just because some people contribute some articles to newpapers, we can't consider them as a part of that newspaper. Shiv, if I am interviewed for some show in your TV channel, do you consider me as part of that channel ?He he, I am rolling on the floor laughing when I hear you say your argument on the profs. MoD doesn't consults some profs in junk colleges who have time to argue with your in your forums; they only consult with top ranking colleges like IITs & IISc; and those profs won't have time to reply to your silly questions in your BRF forums.You and me are using anonymous id only; I don't understand how you say that I am using a fake ID but you are using a real ID.From your argument, every one can conclude that your arguments are weak. So stop advertising about the BRF..
@ firstname.lastname@example.org... just remove the doors and window grills (and security personnel if u have hired) of your house.... lets see how deep your sleep can get... so much so for SENSE OF SECURITY... IDIOT..becoz u have never been insecure, you have no idea what it is to be INSECURED....
@ ANON 9:41Hey RATshaker .. go back to your RAThole. Stop wasting your time arguing with us. Its funny how you say our arguments are weak and that you will "tear us apart" and yet you continue to BS here..Defence enthusiasts are not "experts" - just because they managed to get a few articles doesn't make them any experts. The real experts don't waste their time on forums. If you want an expert on security you visit B.Ramans forum - NOT the RATshak home. Only people like you think that there are experts there. Anyone can google and post "expert" ideas - I've seen many threads on there myself and I can say as a military employee (I work for a large defence corp) I don't have the time to argue things with people like you with RATshakers.But if it excites you so much, stay there and stop blowing the RAT trumpet here.
Anon 2.45PMIf you are a dangerous guy, no one will dare to attack or steal anything from you whether you have strong doors or windows to protect u or not. If you are weak and cowardly no amount of doors and grills can save you. The Great Wall of China, Maginot line, Hitler's "Atlantic Wall" etc. are good examples. :)There is another example, Vlad Dracul used to keep a cup of gold in every water fountain in his city. Due to his reputation no one ever stole even one cup. This is SECURITY.You have still not answered how defense budget is related to my personal freedom? And how exp on defense provides me an "alternative" which is the cornerstone of "liberty"?
@anon @5.45exactly... we are to an extent weak (politically and in terms of equipment) ... but then blame the govt and policy makers for it... not the forces...and till the day u have that kind of prowess, you need those grills and doors... if u plan to remove them, sell them and buy some magic potion with that money to make you strong, whose gonna protect u when u are on your way to buy it???? you can't reduce the force strength before the day you are absolutely capable of substituting it.... or do you plan to hire "US army" for the time till we we modernize (using the money saved by reduction of troops?? ) :oand defence budget is nowhere related to ur personal freedom - neither mine.. :)
Anon 11.36PM,We are weak politically, diplomatically and economically...but certainly not militarily). Weakness must be determined on the basis of threats faced by India. And what r they precisely? China..either steals tech or still relies on reverse engg vintage 1950s Soviet era tech...Pakistan uses the same 2nd hand Chinese stuff.Large numbers or superior strength have never always resulted in victory. France and USSR had far larger armies than that of Germans (remember Germany was barred from developing a strong military after 1st WW defeat?), yet Germany defeated them with considerable ease at the beginning of WWII. Same case with defeat of Persians by Greeks or Imbrahim Lodhi's at the hands of Babur or India's Nawabs defeat by East India company (LOL! not a country or king).You are correct we need to have alliances, not to fight battles on our behalf but to ensure that they don't happen in the 1st place. Post WWII Japan, Germany and South Korea perfect examples. Ponder over this.Ergo we need to reengineer our armed forces which is relic of colonial India. It is certainly not an modern Indian Army in the true sense of the word. We also need to spend our meager resources more prudently, or else "India" will become history within next 50 years.
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