Friday, May 13, 2011

Why MBT Arjun Isn't Part Of The Army's Current Wargame

There's a good deal of curiosity out there (and some speculation) about why India's indigenous Arjun main battle tank was kept out of the current corps-level exercise Vijayee Bhava that's on in 2,400 sq-km of territory not far from where the Arjuns recently entered operational service. Well for an official word (cue, conspiracy theorists), I put the question on Thursday afternoon to the Army's Western Commander Lt Gen Shankar Ghosh, under whose command (HQ: Chandimandir) the exercise is being conducted. He said, "It's very simple. I don't have any Arjuns at Western Command. I cannot use what I do not have under me."

The Arjun regiment (75th Armoured) comes under the Army's Southern Command, headquartered in Pune, a theatre formation that apparently had nothing to do with the current exercise in terms of asset contributions. The Vijayee Bhava exercise currently deploys a large number of T-90 and T-72 tanks from regiments under the Western Command.

There's extensive coverage on Livefist of the Arjun saga, its trials against the T-90 and its final acceptance by a reputedly reluctant Army. Just realised I hadn't posted about the Arjun for almost a year. I was dodging Grad rockets in Libya the day the tanks entered operational service. Oh well.

Photo ©The Hindu

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

The unofficial reason for Leopard2A4 aka Arjuns not participating in this exercise is that it will be another opportunity to prove the superiority of German tanks over the Russian/Soviet tanks. And it will also call into question the honesty and integrity of the people who are supposed to defend this country from all it's enemies.

Anonymous said...

Shiv, do post updates on Arjun Mk2
-Follower since last 2+ years

DHRUV said...

shiv bhai may be it doesn't fit in their doctorines or they dont have faith in arjun's ability. whatever the reason may be now hey are working in close co-ordination with drdo for fmbt.and i m sure next time there will be all indians tanks in armory.i m not an dfense experrt like you u but i studied a law in physics that friction is max when things are just abt to move .may be this is that phase

RAT said...

WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE ARJ-1/2 IN ACTION OR SOME EXERCISES BY THE ARMED FORCES HOPE IT HAPPENS SOON

Anonymous said...

They were reluctant to compare Arjun with T-90S but when Arjun became decisive winner they still do not want Arjun.

Why we Indians are like?

Anonymous said...

Both DRDO and Army are fooling the country. DRDO is making big NEWS namely (Nirbhay, Arihant, AGNI V, AGNI II AT and many more....) and making nothing worth or on time. Same time defense is interested in imported items which provide more bribes, foreign tours and many more.

Anonymous said...

There is no curiosity or speculation, Arjuns were never meant to be part of this wargame, because they belong to 1 Corps and not 2 Corps...they were part of Ashwamedh--1 corps exercise in 2007 at the same place--Suratgarh. what a moron you are.

Mr. Ra said...

Arjun being a heavier tank may not be comparable with any medium tank like T-90. At most of places Arjun has to be superior than the T-90. However it will be better to compare Arjun with Leclerc and more heavier tanks.

Sparsh said...

Shiv,

A correction: The two Arjun regiments are in Southern Command. More precisely, they are a part of 140 Armoured Brigade (located at Jaisalmer) of 12 Division in XII Corps.

Patriot said...

ARJUN MK2 : Israeli View


Some Israeli guy (named Denil) on a Pakistani Def forum had some interesting replies to a similar topic;

I'm quoting his replies to the topic
#1 Arjun is getting massive Israeli help and NOT 6 as being reported in many places in media, but 8 rolled out recently. There are some Armour and rifling techniques which Isreal has taken from India as they were truly impressive. Other than that a lot of contribution from Israel. NO I CAN NOTprove this right now. This is what i know after discussing Arjun with a high ranking scientist who is a member of the Foreign defense services board (rough translation from Hebrew) who have worked on Arjun for the last 9 months. I personally witnessed a really cool addition to the recent 8, it employs the exact same copy of the HW and SW as the Abrams self diagnostic system...not only does it tell you when the tank is not feeling well but also tells you which part. there is also a battle management system deployed....the funniest part was how decked up the CO's Arjun was...the seats are amazing, even the Russian contingent (overpaid pricks) were emotionally moved to see the interior with all the widgets - and went the best capitalist tank (being sarc. and all)
...i think i will be able to SOMEDAY get pictures of the ARJUN M2 and let you folks see what i have seen...it a true comfort to drive that tank
I walk among diffrent circles compared to many out here on the forum and intend to build a reputation where people believe me without much fuss...as i will not always be able to post links (actually i am too deep into defense to rely on media and links to prove myself). Anyway i am off to a hunting trip organised my some army chaps here in India..will defanately take pictures and post that

#2 You really will have a problem ...say in a desert coming close to this machine. This is a really good machine...the main gun beats the Merkava any day. Bloody hell the shear energy at extended range in ft.lb delivered with the accuracy is truly astonishing...i personally think this main gun is a accidental find for Indian's. the saboy round penetrated the hull of a t-55 derelict then went through the second one behind it and the place where it pierced the sand dune had a formation of glass crystals around the sand.

#4 Incidentally my father worked on a series of Merkava tanks (yes yes i am a Jew) i too graduated with honors in Armour. but right now in a slightly different objective in India. anyway i agree with you maneuver is imp. BUT THEN AGAIN in all the discussion i have seen here maneuver is something gone a miss here. i havent driven a al -k but this arjun is as maneuverable as a Abram M2(spent a lot of my time with these tanks) ..no bloody difference, i dont know maybe al-khalid is much better compared to A-M2 in maneuver. You will outrange it...by what 5000m from a reflexes Chinese copy of soviet projectile...do you think no one here thought of ATGM and countermeasure. This is the classified bit in electronics Israeli gave to Arjun. I am telling you buddy, someone better get serious about countering Arjun...its mere prototype passed direct hits from t-90 AP rounds (new round), it passed fragmented top attack munitions, You want to kill it.
a) you need to get it tracks off
b) in some way get the electronics off
c) hit it at less than 200 m from something like a Milan 3 repeatedly in hopefully the same area or
d)put a huge mine under it (has counter electronic to detect it...direct contribution from what is to be a Merkava 4 system)
e) i would have a serious debate going against this tank on a Merkava 3 and i am honors in armour and spent a few. I think the brits will be very very interested in the armour these people have developed or even the rednecks....thats the level and quality you are looking at

Most of this was news to me. Whaddya think?

@patriot said...

Guys Check out this Link.. I Can now see The Awesome arjun in a new perspective.. Cheers...

Rahul said...

Shiv,Thanks for clarification. However i am taking commander's answer with salt. Defence forces world wide do test their new equipments at given every opportunity and this exercise was one golden opportunity to test Arjun further and recommend improvements(if any) and evolve doctrine. For any defence tech specially new, repeated testing helps in 'evolution' which in turn keeps it on cutting edge.

On conspiracy note. Well there is little doubt left that Army is avoiding Arjun. I guess after flat defeat of T-90 during competitive trials and embarrassment thereafter, they no longer can take risk of more positive publicity of Arjun within Tanker community.

Mr. Ra said...

The combination of Arjun-I/II with T-90 can be the best possible combination in the world under any given circumstances, when all other factors are kept constant. Even then the proper air superiority and ground strike support shall be envisaged and provided to them.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:52 is a pakistani. but trying to be Indian. rofl

Arjun is the best MBT.

Chandan said...

VEry passionate and blunt language patriot...a puke reading ur post will be speechless !!!

Anonymous said...

If Anon @ 3:52 is a Pakistani, then there are 500 million Pakistanis in India. Anon @ 2:53 pm is living on a cloud and has no touch with mainstream India nor the sentiments and beliefs of at least half the Indians, if not more. Anon @ 2:53 has to get real, rather than call any person who criticizes India a Pakistani. If we have Indians like 2:53, who needs Pakistanis? Everybody has to see the real truth. War actually teaches people to see the real truth, but 2:53 doesn't want to. He must be scared of something. Arjun may be a great tank, but it hasn't proven itself yet in field trials. Everyone knows that! Till Indians can ask and answer the tough questions, they might as well mount a bullock cart with a gun and call it a battle tank!

Having said all this, I hope the Arjun becomes a great battle tank one day.

Anonymous said...

Dear Shiv,
The answer is simply two big OOls !!

Anonymous said...

its heavy its dont match with armys doctrine of lightning attack so thay dont use it i think arjuns will be use to safeguar rear..in war games