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59 Comments on "COLUMN: MMRCA, The Right Choice For The Wrong Reasons"

Angle of Attack
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Admiral sir has forgotten that IAF still follows the soviet philosophy of having a large force with unending variety of aircrafts and weapons to go on it. This philosophy has been used to tune the tactics according to situation, like in Kargil when IAF had to replace the jags with Mirages as the French plane was better suited for the job. However, he is right. IAF needs to limit adding more types of aircraft.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

This very sad state of affairs…who can help this country…???May be another 1962….

Dev
Guest
Dev
4 years 10 months ago

Why he didn't try to change system while he was in office? He remained as Chief of Naval staff for 2 years and he could influenced others for this change. It would had been great if he had done something for this rather that now writing article.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

"three successive US Presidents who have gone out of their way to bring about unprecedented warmth and proximity in Indo-US relations."… if they have done… this only due to… forseening commercial interest… only… then they are only merchants… not friends…

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Easily one of the best posts I have read on this blog !!

Mirza
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

We should check his decision taken during his service as he is more US person than Indian.

LOL Buy 400 F-18,thanks them when they F*@k us during war or some other circumstance @ 7th fleet

one hand asking self-reliance on the other hand want us to sell soul.

More Confused person actively looking governors job

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Hi Shiv,
If you are back in India please do us all a favor and go to Rajasthan and get us some pics of Arjun mk2 and some opinion from army. All your fans are hoping you will be the first one to report.

regards

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Its just Mrs Gandhi channeling money to her MAeEKE (EUROPE). this is to bail them out of financial crisis…MMRCA deal is all set to fill european pockets….who knows some of her relatives are beneficiaries of this deal …
self reliance…hah…babulog ghotale kaise karenge jab tak foren deals nahi hongee :)))

AK
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Most of the points made in this article are valid. However, I have uneasy feeling that he is leaning towards the American systems and that this is not a completely fair assessment of the situation on the ground.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
Interesting article, seems like the author knows about the problems facing the system. And has stressed on aggressive "Self-reliance" in defense research. My thoughts in addition to the authors, are to diversify defense research from the sole proprietorship of defense PSUs to create more competitors to them,thus enhancing efficiency. Award contracts to those who demonstrate the best indigenous technology and manufacturing. Once these private sector participants pitch in, automatically DRDO, ISRO, HAL etc,etc will learn what time-lines, and budget mean to bagging successful contracts. Until this happens, we will see shoddy research being peddled around as world-class and self-praising will… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Anon 7:18 PM not really sad of affairs we are doing better than you. Might be reputation of 1971.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
Most Indian so-called scientists and PhDs are not creators of science, merely followers in the footsteps of actual discoverers of scientific thoughts. This is reflected from the importance given to rote learning and emphasis on scoring marks in exams, instead of demonstrating talent in the form of fundamental research which very few of our scientist actually pursue. Such short-sighted pursuit of technology based on western research will always keep us enslaved to science being discovered in western society, even if we achieve total indigenousness, we will never discover new science and always be behind the research curve. The only way… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

First of all the mention of F-16 is totally uncalled for. India needed an aircraft with future development in mind and that is why it specifically sent that out. There simply is no scope for upgradation in F-16. Yeah it was nice aircraft once but now we are moving into era of fifth gen fighters with extensive new techs. Anything less than 4.5+ gen is pointless. Tejas Mk-II with AESA, ew suite and 120Kn engine (all are confirmed updates) can fill F-16s place easily.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

There are some very positive developments. Mr. Naik, though an great man, used to gravitate towards foreign goods and was less enthusiastic towards domestic goods. However his successor Mr Browne has shown an distinct liking of domestic projects. Remember its the top which decide what is to be done and what not. With an favourable top command we can see brisk induction of Tejas and priority development of our Fifth gen Fighter MMRCA.

Mr. Ra
Guest
Mr. Ra
4 years 10 months ago
Thanx for an excellent analytical article rarely seen. However it too creates the paradox that either purchase from US or achieve the self reliance. US economy is not a house of wax which may meltdown in absence of any MMRCA order. Rather economies of other contender nations may be highly affected with or without it. Regarding quantities or capabilities of aircraft's needed, a point loading system must have been devised somewhere, wherein different points are allotted to various a/cs depending upon their capabilities and are finally summed up. On this scale India should target to acquire and maintain at least… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

A very good article.

Major.srikanth
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Hard to trust someone from such a high level of hierarchy. The Author has lots of knowledge no doubt, but the whole piece seems indecisive. He talks about all the aircraft, indigenous industry and yet there is no conclusion. So Sir what is it going to be,russian or European. At least now be man enough to state AS-IS.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
There are two things that should be taken into consideration here:– The "relatively small" economies of Germany, the UK, and France are really not that small, since they rank among the top 5 (at worst, top 10) of the world– The fact that the US wants to be best buddies with India has to do with the fact that the other regional powers: China and Pakistan, are far from being likeable by the US… so the US has no choice but to be friends with India, since India is the only important country in the region that is respectable and… Read more »
Mr. Ra
Guest
Mr. Ra
4 years 10 months ago

To: Anon @2:02 AM

You are true, but if business and purchasing are the only symbols of friendship, then India has already shown enough friendship through G-17, C-130 & P-8. Now at least MMRCA shall be separated from this mode, wherein EFT/Rafale shall be allowed to freely compete onward in the final rounds.

In my opinion, India should have already purchased 50 Nos of F-18 on a rapid basis to fill up the gap of depleting quantities. That opportunity seems to have passed.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
Admiral Sir, US of A is not a trustworthy supplier. Secondly, 3 intrusive treaties to sign – not a very friendly act. Thirdly, while we sign 123 and have years of discussion on NSG waiver our regional competitors get turnaround & bye-pass these multilateral forum. Lastly, nobody will supply us TOT. No Sir, not Russians or French or Europeans or Israel and definitely not Yankees. Pretext will be that we are incapable of absorbing technology – in which they are partially true. Our best brains in India do MBA after engineering and join consultancy or finance and ultimately work for… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

I think in the last para of sub-heading 'Backing Self-Reliance', the Admiral must've meant PAK-FA and not AF-PAK.

SmestarZ
Guest
4 years 10 months ago
Dear Sir It is very interesting article with lot of details and the article contradicts itself. Point 1 :Quoting the Admiral "Assuming that the MiG-21s are withdrawn by the end of the decade, to be replaced by the Tejas; the MMRCA, when it joins the fleet, will become the 8th type of combat aircraft in IAF service. The increasing diversity of aircraft types (mostly of foreign origin) being accumulated by the IAF is going to become a nightmare in the spheres of training, maintenance, logistics and inventory-management." Adding F-16IN or F/A-18 E/F would not have solved it and complicated it… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

M-MRCA should have been completed much before. more emphasis should be given on UAV as this will be used in the future war. MMRCA aircraft will then be secondary in attack, taking into consideration the cost and human factor. so india should focus more on UAV. china is devloping(or smuggling) UAV technology, they are much advance than india. the main thing is that pakistan will get this UAV very soon and have technical advantage. Sir, can u most the development of india's UAV program. thanks in advance.

Rajan
Guest
Rajan
4 years 10 months ago

Thanks Admiral Prakash for the details view of the deal and related efforts by the services's preparation and future problems.

IA and IAF must learn a lot from IN. Ship and submarine building is the highest technological challenge in defence sector. IN managed it well and getting full benefits of indigenous products while for some ridiculous reason IA and IAF reluctant to add Indian systems though foreign weapons specially Russian has so man problems.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

@Shiv Thank you very much for moderating Jingo comments. Please keep up the good work and only allow comments that actually add something to topic and remove unnecessary flame baits that try to derail discussion. Even if they have been published by oversight.

Michael
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

India for some strange reasons have always shinned closer ties with the US. http://www.willylogan.com/?p=287

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Mirages, Fulcrums and Jags would be retired anytime after 2022.The Indian Airforce would be limited to just five types of fighters the SU-30,50, LCA, AMCA and to be chosen-MMRCA. Secondly the L1 option were to be exercised only after the aircraft were technically evaluated and shortlisted.Keeping in mind potential for future upgrades which could last beyond 2040 Rafale and Typhoon or even Gripen seems to be an appropriate choice inspite of being expensive.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

"equally performant rafale and typhoon"?
we can see it every days in libya, at rates and role of missions that they carries, or canibilise for the former! hey hey

rohitvats
Guest
rohitvats
4 years 10 months ago

Mr Ra, you are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, ratshakers like anon@11:21 PM wont agree. They continue to have mental debates and term is as "expertise". This phenomena can be seen at the ratshaker forum.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Shiv – people do work on Sundays and i thought you too belong to this tribe. Post my comments i had submitted in the morning. It was at least not disrespectful of honorable Admiral.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
Thank you Admiral for a timely article. His final recommendations need to be taken seriously by the GoI. I however wish to disagree with the last recommendation of the admiral. Recommendation no. 2 should take care of the objective. Research and production play a very important role and have to occupy an important place in the security management of the country. The urge of services to dominate the DRDO should be checked firmly by the GoI. Otherwise the consequences will be disastrous. Let the services manage their business properly. What they have done till date regarding indigenous development can be… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

@10:35 AM
dude, what the hell is a jingo? please leave ratshaker language at the rat forum. We are here to read Shiv's posts and some sensible comments.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

@Anon 5:13 Dude dont blame anon at 10:35. He is right. And you by calling him 'Ratshaker' have only proved and re-enforced his point.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

@Anonymous 5:13Pm So you think K sounds like T? Then why not call Pakistan 'RATistan' which judging by the huge number of terrorists infiltrated in their army is an very fitting name.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Brilliant insight from the Admiral. Thank you Sir!

Tarak
Guest
Tarak
4 years 10 months ago

I think we all agree with Anon 10:35. Comments shall be highly moderated. By allowing flaimbaits, off-topic banter and jingos we dilute the discussion. Please @Shiv dont let Livefist discussions quality go down.

Sarang
Guest
Sarang
4 years 10 months ago

Its a pretty disappointing article, by a person who held one of the most important post in India

Almost all the arguments, problems, what the government needs to do etc etc

It seemed more like an article blaming the other forces

For a person so senior was looking for an insight a perspective i dint have before

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

…babulog ghotale kaise karenge jab tak foren deals nahi hongee :)))

Babulog do ghotalsa in PSUs and DRDOs. Less chances in foreign deals as that is the forte of politicians. All defence PSU and DRDO are Babulogs..

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
Easy potshots at the IAF.Compare the RAF and AdA with the IAF. Who are the RAF protecting England from – the Scots? 300 combat ac for zero threat at home. Hmm.The IAF has a task set out for it by the GoI. "Supporting" indigenous programmes does not mean inducting them in any state. The service has no doubt that the Tejas needs to be inducted, but if ADA and HAL do not deliver, it has little option but to bid for alternatives.Tejas IOC was much tomtommed in Jan this year. Formation of the sqn was promised in a few months… Read more »
Chintan
Guest
Chintan
4 years 10 months ago

@Michael, re "India for some strange reasons have always shinned closer ties with the US."
Could it possibly have something to do with the fact that the US, for some strange reason has always shunned closer ties with India? Just wondering.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

There is no doubt that the Eurofighter Typhoon is performant but in terms of capabilties, Rafale have no equal there. If the Rafale GIE looses this market they might just as well hire Eurofighter technico-commercial geniuses…

Michael
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

@ Chintan, pls read the article before you comment…

Chintan
Guest
Chintan
4 years 10 months ago
@Major.Srikanth,I had to smile at your comment about "being man enough" to state things 🙂 Very Fauji indeed. I think the reason for the indecisiveness (is that a word? "indecision" maybe?) as you accurately discern in the article is because of what you started your note with. Because of his previous position, the Admiral would need to not be too hard hitting or negative. Overall though, I think it will only do the entire system good if more people like the Admiral would write about issues like this. Although almost everything he says in the article has been discussed before,… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

By the time PAKFA and AMCA arrive, the Mig 21s, 23s and 27s will be gone. That would leave IAF with 29s, M2000s, LCAs, MMRCA and Su30. The PAKFA/AMCA will start replacing the Mig29s and M2000s which means in the light category, LCA will have a clear induction path. In the longer I would like to see AMCA take over from MMRCA. Not too bad in the long term. The short term is nightmarish though.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago
Arun Prakash is a gifted writer, and his style and command of the English language is par excellence. I have always found his articles interesting and meaningful. They are rather long, sometimes, but I can still get through them with time for other things. The insights and expertise he has to share are worth reading every article of his. There are a few things I might recommend to the Admiral or anyone else for that matter, and it is high time these points I am about to mention sink in with everybody in India: 1. The politician decision-makers are NOT… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

The good Admiral also could not avoid discussing policy and acquisitions together. In future, serious writers should discuss policy / strategy separately. They should resist the temptation to talk about procurements. Perhaps servicemen are conditioned to seek equipment all the time, mostly imported.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

Anon @ 10.30, you are clearly from the IAF. You reflect accurately the attitude of the IAF. I would like to humbly submit that all those young people who think that they should only work with the imported best need not join the IAF. The country will find enough people to work with India's best equipment and still take care of the nations interests. Let this message go out clearly, because this issue will not die down till good sense prevails.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

In today's world, national defense means much more than the armed forces. In fact, the economy and also the contribution of the scientists, technologists is becoming more and more important. The nature of combat is also undergoing significant change. The previous prima donna status of the services in the country no longer prevails. It appears that the process of adjustment for the services is now taking place and we can expect more potshots being taken by the services at other branches of the Government for some more time.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
4 years 10 months ago

EFT being $40m dearer than Rafale with 60% less capabilities and no roadmap? WOOOWWW
Cassidian gmbh got lot of works on this, adds and pdf comercials will not remove the fact they run a expansive old tech poney ..

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