Sunday, May 20, 2012

Reloaded Arjun Killed At Birth?

This is one powerful déjà vu. A repeat of what happened with the original Arjun main battle tank.

As the Arjun Mk.2 rumbles at the Pokhran field firing range (the prototype is understood to have arrived there on May 10), warming up for user trials from the first week of June, a combination of factors may have killed the tank at birth.

First, the trials in June will test the following performance parameters of the tank: acceleration, turning radius, stab performance, ergonomics, static fuel consumption, cruising fuel consumption, tilt driving. The trials will also involve firing of primary and secondary ammunition, consistency and rate of fire, firing at night using thermal imagers, and of all new equipment. The prototype does not have the mine plough as depicted in the CAD image above.

Consider the following facts:

* The Army has already begun to speak unofficially about the Arjun Mk.2 (in the coming days, you'll see reports about this in newspapers), talking of how trials may take as long as the protracted trials on the Arjun Mk.1, including comparative trials. This only means one thing -- the Army already has its mind made up, and we saw what that meant with the Mk.1. The changes the Army has asked for on the Mk.2 include several major modifications and offensive capabilities and extensive additions. This doesn't augur well for timely delivery. According to information supplied to Parliament, the Arjun Mk.2 is to begin deliveries in 2015, costing Rs 37-crore per tank. The blacklisting of IMI, a technology partner in the programme, has only made the Army more nervous.

* The Army wants the DRDO to get on with the FMBT programme. Legacy opposition to Project Arjun has boiled down to abject disregard for anything pertaining to the programme -- and perceptions that transacting on a programme that was commissioned just after the 1971 war is plainly foolish.

* As I'd indicated earlier, I can now confirm that a Russian delegation, which included officials from Uralvagonzavod and Rosoboronexport met with the a team from the Army's Mechanised Forces at Sena Bhawan in the second week of March this year. The  scheduled meeting was to present information about the T-90MS that was to be unveiled at the Defexpo show a fortnight later. The meeting was a casual one -- the inviduals involved have met many times before on the expansive T-90 transactions. My sources tell me that it was conveyed at the meeting that if India chose to license-build more T-90s, the cost of transferring any additional technology would be waivered. The offer is a direct hit at the Arjun Mk.2. The upcoming trials also came up at the meeting. The Russians are understood to have offered to assist in the Indian FMBT project (and is in talks separately with DRDO about this) and that it was time to let the Arjun go.

* It is a fact that the Army has already told the Department of Defence Production that it will not expand its existing indent for 124 Arjun Mk.2s, as it does not need more heavy tanks. The Arjun Mk.2 is over 60 tons. This has been taken up even at a personal level by the Army's DG Mechanised Forces with Minister of State for Defence, MM Pallam Raju. The DRDO has said that any order below 500 tanks (in a mix of Mk.1 and Mk.2) makes Project Arjun a dead loss. This is precisely what it is likely to be, which is why products based on the Arjun chassis (bridge-layer tank, self-propelled artillery) or Arjun turret (Tank-X) are being pushed too. A total of 248 Arjun Mk.1/2 tanks in Army service is the maximum the programme can hope for.

60 comments:

Unknown said...

wow thats so dissappointing.....capping an ambitious project to just 248 which have cost billions of rupees so far. Wat the hell is the army upto?? Well shiv sir you have any knowledge whether the mk 1 versions be upgraded to mk 2??

Pandora said...

I guess,Indian army should be disbanded. Even a blind can say who is better .
An uncle of mine in colonel level once said that Indian Army is now basically an army of incompetent,low confidence with internal rank politics.According to him ,Indian army will loose a war ,if thr is a war tommorow with pakistan.
A sorry state because they are not aware how to operate things eg Army engineers Corps don't even know how overall T90 tanks tracks,they even imported the rubber pads and pins due to their is more money involved in it ,so is more corruption.He said Arjun mk1 is good atleast their spare parts are avilable in house but there is no room for corruption so the labeled as bad tank..

Anonymous said...

The reason why the army keeps complaining is because they are unused to seeing a weapons system being designed and developed in front of their eyes. So far they have only been used to finished products being presented to them. During the weapons development process, the first attempts will see things like wheels coming off, etc. That's all part of the development process. Ask Boeng, Dassault, etc. This project for the Indian army is an enormous learning opportunity for both manufacturer and end-user. The skills developed here will be in-house and a treasure trove of knowledge for the future. Please don't let other countries benefit from the research, building and deployment process. Senior officers must take the lead and educate their younger colleagues about what goes into the making of a system.

Anonymous said...

The question of choosing either MK2 or T90MS should depend solely on one factor. How many countries are involved in MK2 and T90MS. If MK2 is only 60% Indian and getting the rest from other countries then we should go with T90MS provided we get TOT for everything about tank making including engines, electronics, future enhancement capabilities etc. We can just hang on to MK2 if the partners are being black listed and DRDO doesn't have technology/capability to build them on their own. I think it's high time we concentrate on setting up R&D in to things that can start in next 10years. R&D should also go in to setting up automation of production equipment which can then be given to HAL (when it gets broken in to sub units because of their own sluggishness) and improve delivery capability and there by countries non-dependence on other countries for important products like these.

Anonymous said...

Is this report speculation based on some of the info you have shared Shiva?
Or, its in the league of guesswork like your Nirbhay story?

Anonymous said...

DRDO is a failed organisation DRDO must be close they can not make any thing without foreign help.

Sarab aka Mirza said...

Shiv it just another plain scam by killing Arjun we will left to mercy of Russia for Tin can only.

As you told about TATRA long before it had hit headlines.
This scam will hit later in coming years every defense venders playing dirty tricks to destroy Indian competition at starting level or by influencing yearly change GSQR.

Defense must take hard stand for Arjun and must order 500 + arjun ask army this what you will get.

Anonymous said...

Army should be told eiether work with DRDO or no more imported tanks. At the same time, DRDO should be held accountable for time lines & quality of products.

Both Army and the Babu's at DRDO should be held accountable for this kind of failures.

sents said...

This is not good. According to me, even if the arjun mk2 performs 30% lesser than T-90ms, we should buy it. What is the use of help from Russia for FMBT. At the time FMBT comes to trials, Russia will provide a better tank and we will go for it. I hope they just accept arjun mk2 as it is and ask for more upgrades, in the future.

Anonymous said...

Indian Army is a bunch of corrupt fellows. Simple. Why are we not raiding the houses of Army officers who change the GSQRs frequently to see how much many they have got, what are the disproportionate assets etc..These fellow are totally unprincipled and corrupt..We must band all imports. It is a pity that a bunch of corrupt fellows are in charge of our country.. When are we getting to be free of corruption..

If Army wants to imports tanks those officers should be dismissed forthwith and told no more imports.

Even the Defence ministry is avoiding purchasing the equipment for Army and is purchasing for Navy and Air Force possibly only to avoid corruption scams coming up.Unfortunately this is hitting us.

We musst ask CBI to raid the homes of serving and retirned officers and bug their telephones. When GSQRs are changed office concerned must present a white paper as to why earlier GSQR needs a change,, What is the modified threat perception.. Why this was not anticipated and either the one who issued the first GSQR or the Second GSQR should be dismissed from service for corruption or incompetence.

Only when we do all this tough work Army will change. Otherwise these fellows are only looting the country and have no morality whatsoever.

Anonymous said...

Army is garbage and their arguments are nonsense. Given the number of tanks needed .. close to 3000 .. there is no reason NOT to have both Arjun Mk2 AND T90SM.

Even if Army and DRDO go full out on Mk2 production, the numbers will not be sufficient, ie: there will be room for advanced versions of T90 even with Mk2 fully implemented.

Anonymous said...

it will be very unwise to think that these 12th class pass officer who become high rank official are not as corrupt as IAS, politicians & the rest of India

Anonymous said...

Shiv is speculating on every thing previously on nirbhay where he himself designed a cruise missile and now on Arjun trails on June and he is deciding Arjun fate on may clearly these r just shivs views

Anonymous said...

Problem is the big difference in what is expected & what is delivered. DRDO with it's >$2 billion budget has not delivered at many points. Like HAL, there is no accountability. People who have worked there tell us it's the same typical government work culture there. They fool us by calling everything indigenous, when most of it contains imported parts. It's more like assembling here rather than indigenization which has happened on few occasions. And Indian media & the junta get carried away by the patriotic fervor! Fact is LCA, Arjun could have been done better with rather than decades of delays & billions of overruns! Indians do have the capability, it's just the best people are not in the jobs. Reservation for this, reservation for that, and you have someone not talented testing simulated flights of LCA! Plus, we have the ego hassles between IAF, HAL & DRDO. Net result, we are the biggest arms importers in the world despite being best brains in the world! And the arms dealers, middlemen are kept happy too!

Anonymous said...

sell to arjun MK2 to pakistan and when the pak army will blow up our army tin can the T 90MS . then the Foolish genrals will get their mind right!! army is learning nothing from indian navy!

Anonymous said...

Blind men of Hindustan.....

jj said...

Whoever is in charge of procurement, framing GSQR and related stuff should be hauled up before an empowered interrogation committee. These bunch of corrupt jokers have killed numerous indigenous programs. Arjun is just one of numerous examples. I agree, DRDO isn't perfect, but Army, MOD are even bigger culprit than DRDO

Anonymous said...

a very sad day for the indigenous defense industry....
for all the hard work and time put into the program which produced a world beating tank the army now says it is to heavy..... look at the abrams , merkava, leapord 2, the challenger all of them tip the scales at over 61 tons and all of them are amazing,
and now the army wants a lighter tank wat a joke.....

Mandy said...

Ah Mr Anonymous , Given that we are surrounded by some reigions we cant trust , the threat multiplies . We need to have more tanks . And its not just about 3000 Tanks , its about which tank . We have a lot of aeging T-72s And T55s in them too . T-90 an Arjun are just newbies :) !

We can surely have Arjun MK2 For it would be homegrown , lower in cost and we can modify it whenever we want (even though russians one dont come with strings attached but then , they charge you too much) . Think about the employment it will create for production lines , managing lines and other firms researching for further technologies on this project .


We'll now Shiv, your past two posts seem so pessimistic to me in nature that it really worries me out , Though its a true Journalism i know :)And i guess we would go on with Arjun MK2 , I belong to Fauj background and people are seriously looking forward to it :)

I just hope that you manage to get some trial snaps and we can get rid of these digital images :) . And yeah , those mine clearing stuff looks ugly to me as always , Armoured doesnt use it for every tank in the regiment . Only a few T-72s have them . Can we have an image without them next time ?

Anonymous said...

Indian army will always try to sabotage desi product when equivalent foreign product is available at their disposal. just imagine a situation where there are control regimes not to sell tanks (similar to MTCR) would the army reject the desi product. no they wont because they have no choice. i am glad to MTCR that missiles like prithivi, agni, etc have been inducted. if someone offers missiles of that range then army would not gone for indigenous products. They is too much lobbying and too much corruption. we are now the largest importer of arms in the world surpassing china. this is not what we should be proud of.

Anonymous said...

Good. Lets sell the Arjuns to the Pakis and involve them as Joint Partners or sell the entire blueprints on Ebay along with 248 prototypes. May the highest bidder win. The Army should not complain under such circumstances. DGMF has something rotting in its closet.
Its almost as if the Mech is super nervous to field in the Arjuns. Why? Particularly when it outperformed and outgunned the T-90. DGMF is blatantly telling DRDO to find other uses of the Arjun chasis. Thank you, you came up with a superior product thats currently in our inventory so we cannot order more Arjuns. You have done a darned good job with the Arjun, but hey, lets concentrate on FMBT and we already have the T-90's on order. So why don't we just scrap the project and move on.

Anonymous said...

De Ja Vu! I bet evrything is there but not the spittun for the pan and tobacco chewing jawans.If it's in then positiion might be wrong.
Do Russian tanks have to jump through hoops,do double summersault or few Russian Roubles,and foreign visits can make their tanks look world beaters!Only in India you go through same problems,not once,but repeat them! God save the common people.A basic question..Where was army when they were designing the MK2,is this done in isolation?

Anonymous said...

Its a very good news, Indian Army, Airforce and Navy do not prefer products made by Indian Engineers and researchers. I understand our Armed force personal's son and daughter study and live in foreign land therefore they have been advised to create job for western population.

Can we have get foreign Armed forces and Politician as both of them would most probably create jobs for indian Engineers and researchers. Had we not been working in foreign organisation, the Indian company or govt. officials would have certainly though, "the Indian Engineers and researchers are fit for nothing."

Anonymous said...

DRDO please plan to export Arjun and keep the tank project alive...our people will never see anything else other than money...

Anonymous said...

all the push to have drdo work on fmbt is good but the army (as far as the details available on the net say) has not yet come out with the GSQR for that!

@shiv..have the GSQR been fixed?

Anoop said...

I think army wants a light tank to that it can be used at hilly terrains as well as also to be airlifted easily and that is not possible with arjun, which is rather proving a great assets in dessert conflict. Yes army can order 500 Arjun for Sand for what then it do for its existing inventory which is mainly stayed there at present and further it creates another risk of type maintainence which creates an another type to maintain if army apportioned the order in between Arjun and T90. Even Arjun is still not benn developed in Full it demands more time to mature where the 90 is readily available. an another problem is indigenouslity of Arjun, which has been developed by DRDO but like Tejas most of its crucial components-engines are Foreign and even the worse is these from the NATO allies and Us dependent nations like Germany... and Army do't want to choke its fleet when in time it required to fire whilest Russian proved the valuable in War time. although Armed forces not happy with the quality of Russians as compared to Westerns. It is not to be said the investments are waste coz Spin-offs some time proves more beneficial the history of armaments developments around the globe supports this. If tank portioned in two parts (i.e. Chassis and Barrel) then Chassis have a lot of Gud options even it 'll give the best of IFV and 155mm Gun carriers, so why there is....Shor In The City... army not in denying mode for spin-offs if offered... I am not a Military expert but Guru can guide us best if my opinion is right......All the best

Anonymous said...

God help India. I don't know which is worse, DRDO's incompetance or Indian Army's stupidity and corruption. I hope guys like Bhardwaj rot in hell for all the anti-Indian work they have been carrying on.

Rahul Samanta said...

Shiv Bro, can you do a favour to our nation and its people? Can you investigate how much money recently(atleast after the meeting you have referred to) has been transferred to the Swiss accounts of our 'God-like' Army figures as well as bureaucrats? I hope it is in high millions....We talk abut our corrupt political figures and jump in support of Anna Hazare but what about these Army craps and the MOD Babus who bring disrespect and disrepute to an institution called Indian Army? When will these idiots understand that "Bahar ka biriyani may taste much better than Ghar ka biriyani but on a long term, if you are going to eat bahar ka biriyani, definitely you will be ending with stomach problems, may be cureless cancer"..... But who cares? As long as the Army top brass and MOD babus can by Hawelis abroad with the money they have received and have an alternatve place to run away and hide if the country comes in danger.....

Anonymous said...

well mr. shiv....u have basically assumed a lot of stuff in ur article...

uve rightly put that question mark in the title...

Anonymous said...

so its useless to spend money on research, drdo employees salary.

saintchap said...

PURE RUSSIAN BLACKMAIL AND INDIA'S(DEFENCE MINISTRY AND ARMY) INABILITY T0 ACCEPT BETTER PRODUCT AVAILABLE (EVEN IT IS HOME MADE).IF INDIA BECOMES SELF SUFFICIENT THEN RUSSIA'S MAIN INDUSTRY WOULD LOSE ITS BUSINESS. DEFENCE MINISTRY SHOULD PUSH ARMY TO ACCEPT HOME MADE (TESTED AND TRUSTED) PRODUCTS. OTHERWISE WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO BUILD INDIGINOUS PRODUCTS.

Karthik Soundarajan said...

Dear Shiv, Do we know if vested interests inside the Army which may be under the influence of Russian arms lobby which is trying to kill the Arjun program? Arjun being a heavy MBT cant be the only reason why the army cant want it. I hope you please throw some light on WHY exactly does the army does not want arjun.

Gautam said...

With the MOD especially AK Antony and Pallam Raju both being hardcore supporters of DRDO, there is zero question after all these years of the Army rejecting Arjun solely due to corruption or petty reasons like 'wanting foreign maal'.

The posters talking out of their asses should consider that the Army has its own needs and deadlines and its own policies for dealing with these. After all this time there are definitely good reasons for it rejecting the Arjun even if we don't get to hear it in public.

So stop talking shit in your blind worship of DRDO's slow-as-molasses development processes and delivery schedules. Your rapid-fire typing criticism of the army hasthe same merit as smearing your own feces on the monitor.

Uttiya Bhattacharya said...

Shiv: Can you enable some form of authenticated commenting? Something that insists on user-identity being revealed?
It will take care of a a lot of Anonymous meaningless comments

Shubham said...

Well DRDO chief VK Saraswat seems to imply that there is no impact of the Israeli firm IMI getting blacklisted on the Arjun MK2 program. Check out this extremely candid interview with Shekhar Gupta available at http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/walk-the-talk/walk-the-talk-with-drdo-chief-vk-saraswat/230667. Follow from 13:52 min onwards regarding problems and supposed delays with the Arjun program as a result of companies getting banned. I think we should wait patiently for the Arjun tank test results to come out before passing a judgement on Arjun's fate. If you recall even during the last round of Arjun tank trials when it outsmarted the T-90s the DRDO was forced to fit black boxes inside the tanks to get a holistic appraisal of the tank's performance post which it was conceded that it performed considerably better than the T-90.

Mr. Ra said...

Army must be well aware that Arjun Mk1 has already outsmarted the T-90S. They also must be understanding that the further simple modifications carried out with their full consent are going to be successful under the simple laws of general extrapolation on Arjun Mk2 (Arjun Mk1A).

There shall not be any real comparison between the Arjun and T-90 because both belong to different weight and class categories and their placements may differ at most of the times. So none of them can be procured as a replacement of the other. Once the Arjun develops with the 1600/1800 HP engine on its Mk3 version, Army shall be most happy to purchase 1000 Nos. of Arjun Mk1, 2 & 3.

So the Army may not be against the Arjun, but they may be trying to reduce its cost. There will always be the need for the T-90MS etc and none has stopped the Army from purchasing/upgrading them.

Rohan said...

What a farce! There is only 1 reason the Army will never buy indigenous products and thats because they dont come with Swiss goodies...But the MOD has played its part in destroying the Arjun project.

Seriously...what hope do you have after the major technological partners got blacklisted months before trials? Now most of the systems that make this vehical good have to be ripped out... conveniently the Russians have showed up as White Knights...again...what a load of rubbish.

And which imbecile in the Army planning Dept wants Light Tanks? Why have they not expressed this requirement before? Both the Arjun's and the upcoming FMBT are heavy tanks, so now we know these fools wont buy any of them? Which modern survivable tank is Light these days? Even basic HUMVEE type jeeps are pushing 25 Tons with all the mine protection. Modern armor is heavy because modern anti-armor weapons are powerful!

ANyone who has pretensions about operating tanks of ANY kind on the Eastern mountain front is clearly a moron and should be chased out of the room with pitchforks...

the terminator said...

Shiv, So long as we still have the likes of Bharadwaj in the DGMF sabotaging every Indian effort to locally produce whatever is imported from overseas, India will forever be the slaves of foreigners.

Why can't the army have two or even three different types of tanks in the heavy, medium and light categories? Arjun Mk1 has outperformed the T-90 tin cans that were bought without ANY trials but the Arjun was subjected to the harshest trials in hot/hot weather and at different terrain. Why didn't the T-90s subjected to the same type of trials?

The rejection by the Army of Indian made defence equipment clearly shows that it is not only biased against local effort but it is corrupted to the core.

As someone mentioned, the CBI should investigate all Army, MOD officers who have a say in the procurement process. If and when a few top corrupted officers are sacked without their gratuity and pension, then only the corruption will minimize. Eradication of corruption in India is only a dream because it is already in the Indian blood.

It is better to get the assistance of the Israelis in whatever defence project than the Russians. We have been dependent on the Russians for so long that they treat us like beggars and dish out whatever is not needed by themselves.

If they kill Arjun for an inferior Russian product, it will be like the HF Marut24 saga for the IAF.

hotgene said...

This is so devastating for us.

Anonymous said...

DRDO must set up a slush fund to deal with such issues!!

Anonymous said...

Trust the illiterates at BR to interpret your post, which actually warns about insidious Russian intentions, as a plant by their lobbies! They cannot be helped. You keep up the good work, Mr Shiv.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv,

I think everyone here need to understand that our army has moved being a Pak centric army. Today, army strategist in our country is focussed on the china threat, and i am sure the lighter tanks are required so that they can be mobilized easily...From Pak perspective Arjun can be the answer but we deflty need to move on and adapt to the threat persception that is arising in the sub-contitent.
PS:i am really suprised to see some of the comments, i can bet that these are people who dont understand the head or tail of Indian army or her military..

Thanks!

Sachin

annonymous said...

its was nice to know you Arjun ... but unfortunately we must bid adieu


boys in the forces just love their light ruskie tanks aye

Dinakar Peri said...

Few days back there were reports that Russia is purchasing Italian tanks! Isn't it paradoxical and funny that when Russia army is abandoning its own T-90, we are racing for it???

Joy said...

Get rid the India army. It is another corrupt den and a employment program that is wasting tax payers money. Get rid of the Army right now!!

Joy said...

Get rid the India army. It is another corrupt den and a employment program that is wasting tax payers money. Get rid of the Army right now!!

Abhishek said...

Reading about Arjun tank repeatedly one basic question came to my mind. i.e. why do an army needs tank.

In second world war they were use for fast movement and breaking infantry formations. It was more like using cavalry or elephants in medieval times.

I fail to understand their role in modern warfare. Now with better options such as attack Helios, drones. I believe that tank is an outdated concept.

Only role fit for an armored vehicle primary role is now to carry infantry safely in hostile grounds i.e. taxiing, for which again tank are unsuitable.

Anonymous said...

It is amazing the magnitude of corruption in our armed forces. They have stooped so low, that they should be collectively hanged for treason....Adarsh Scam, land scam and hell, they didn't even spare purchase of coffins!! Now they want to scuttle the very programs that help India stand on her feet.

Who is the enemy? Pakistan, China or these crooks on whom we have reposed our trust to protect the nation??

Arjun tank is Indianized Leopard 2A4, considered to be among the world's best tanks. A marvel of German engineering technology.Add to that combat proven Israeli and French tech and you get the world's best tank.

The corruption in our armed forces is so endemic that they "blacklisted" IMI, one of the firms in the forefront to modify the Leopard for Indian conditions, just few months before it's trials. So that fewer options were available for it's indigenisation which will lead to further delays and this will beperfect excuse to purchase imported junk at inflated prices (after factoring in bribes to our babus-netas-baniyas-sipahis). Even the Russian Army has called the T90 as the 34th modification to T72 - Tanks which were blown apart like tin cans in the gulf wars.

Such corruption can only happen when there are major structural flaws in the way our armed forces are governed. It still operates as a colonial army and certainly not an army of "independent India". It's high time that we got rid of the monkeys who are the root cause for such morass in an institution with such glorious past.

Anonymous said...

All you smart people talking about UVZ lobby and Russian blackmail. You should THANK Russia for arming India for decades, TEACHING India for decades, supplying India with best weapons in the region, supplying India with KNOWLEDGE which noone else wants to pass on. T-90MS is READY NOW for production. With excellent easily upgradeable protection. Those calling T-90 a tin can - you are technically illiterate. Arjun was REPORTED to have beaten T-90 everywhere but I haven't found any DETAILED analysis and proof with numbers that it did so. Arjun is a contraption of foreign parts, mostly NATO states. Russian stuff will work everywhere and is easily transportable, repairable, requires less people to use, maintain, manufacture. Its WAY too heavy and is only useful for deserts. When India can make a tank with versatility of T-90 of even FIRST series and combination of mobility, firepower, protection, transportability and cost then tell IA to buy it. Till then Arjun is a fuel gussling expensive elephant. Just like the rest of overweight NATO tanks. T-90S has beaten LEO-2, M1A1 and LeClerk in Saudi Arabia in 2010 in mobility, ACCURACY and reliability. Wonder if Arjun could come even close...

Anonymous said...

rubbish reporting ....Seriously dude as i many time told u ...STOP sensationalizing the posts
it will haunt u one day ...

also I could't make ANYTHING from this post

Joy said...

Anon 4.01

Are you Russian? I actually view Russia as India's best ally and mostly their stuff is unboubtably good. I am all for buying Russian. But not this time. Arjun has comprehensively beaten the T-90 is always every single paramter. Arjun has KICKED T-90s butt, deal with it! The T-90 is a light weight tank, only a slight upgrade from another tin can called the T-72 which got its butt handed over a platter in Iraq.

T-90 beating Leopard, M1A1 and LeClerk? Slow down on the Vodka, Vlad!

Anonymous said...

Lets face it. It's all a matter of corruption that riddles the army. The DRDO should offer a competitive bribe and the complexion of the Arjun will change completely. It will be faster, more powerful, more accurate than any competitor. It's only the foot shoulder that braves the icy cold and steamy heat who deserve our respect. We need an absolute cleaning of the military leadership (for that matter, add the political leadership). Till then, the nation will continue to pay for substandard machines and Indian bank accounts in Switzerland will continue to swell.

Anonymous said...

The knowledge gained from this project is worth the price. The 248 tanks are just icing on the cake. So the low order is definately not an indiacation of failure.

For a first attempt, this tank is excellent. However, it is irrational thinking for people to think that this thank should be in top 10, and therefore should be ordered in 1000's.

Abid said...

Hi Shiv, Modern military hardware are so complex, that all its components, subsystems and dependencies such as electronic control etc can't be mastered and provided by a single country. If India has developed Arjun2, albeit some imported components, shall be a highest priority for Indian Army. A sustained war and power projection across such a vast land mass like India, cannot be serviced by some imported pieces. Moreover indegionous military gadgets imparts very positive effect on people's psychology.. as you can recall the good effect of Vijanta, Gnat/Ajeet. The Arjun2 could have been a morale booster for armed forces and also provide releif on tax payer's money, for atleast a decade. I hope, the idiots and babudom shall not spoil this marvellous project. If this tank project fails, I am sure this generation will not be able see a "Made In India" tank.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 3.08 AM,

It's not only among the top ten but in the No.1 position. It's "Indian" only for the namesake. Arjun is highly successful German Leopard 2A4, which has been adapted by the Israelis (experts in modifying tanks to suit desert conditions) and French for our conditions/specifications. Tons have been spent on this project, and if we do not order this tank in large numbers, then, not only will it cost the nation dearly, but we will also lose whatever learning that has accrued from this project (which is even worse than monetary loss).

Getting capital in today's day and age is not an issue, but getting hold of crucial tech in this knowledge based economy, is next to impossible.

Anonymous said...

I think the suggestion of a DRDO slush fund is the most practical and effective idea so far.

Another idea is to keep paying the OFB employees their salaries without any production, and move the production to private firms with strong quality benchmarks for acceptance.

To please the unions it would be fine to include annual 5% increments to salaries as well.

And really despite all the talk of indegenous tank, we know it is a Leopard, so is the Army saying that the tin cans are better or worse that the Leos are crap?

Joy said...

The Indian Army is just a another government bureaucracy...and a corrupt bureaucracy. Its not lean and tough fighting unit... only another government employment scheme (like sarkari rozgar yojana)..all you have is a bunch of paper pushers, deskjob workers wearing trim uniforms and strutting around pretending be "officers" while the common soldiers dies fighting. The Indian Army is no good other then observing ceremonies and marching in a parade. IA has become a joke. It needs to be disbanded and a we need to build a modern fighting force like the SAS, Navy seal, US marines, Shin bet or the Spetznaz. Get rid of the Indian Army ass-clowns.

Anonymous said...

We suckkkkkkkkk!!!

Anonymous said...

No truth in VK Singh's charges of corruption: Saraswat ▐▐▐

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=18698


Looks Saraswat is also not different than our govt babu's.
We dont know how much is his wealth.

Mathew said...

Food for thought :) Alexander Postnikov, the commander of Russian ground forces, stated earlier, in March 2011, that the hardware produced by the Russian defense industry, particularly armored hardware, artillery and small arms, could not compete vs. NATO and even Chinese weapon systems. Postnikov also said that it would be much easier for Russia to purchase three Leopard tanks instead of spending 118 million rubles on building one T-90 tank.
He added Russia's T-90 tank lags far behind Israel's Merkava-MK4, firing range of the Merkava-4 tank is 6 kilometers vs. 2.5 kilometers of the T-90. In addition, Makarov said, Russia's modern military hardware does not guarantee a high level of protection for personnel on battlefields. "We must make the hardware which would keep people alive in any conditions," he said.