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46 Comments

  1. 1

    Anonymous

    sad.
    this is gonna affect the EFT's stake in MMRCA

    Reply
  2. 2

    Anonymous

    It would be inappropriate to make a joke, so I'll simply point out that the base is called "Moron Air Force Base".

    Reply
  3. 3

    Anonymous

    I've had it up to here with Moron!

    Reply
  4. 4

    Anonymous

    We already have participants like new flying coffin: F16 which has staggering crash rate (second only to Migs) in the service of airforce with biggest budget in world. Grippen too has had a crash. So I guess it does not affect EF in any way. It is most likely the newbie pilot's error. RIP to pilot anyway

    Reply
  5. 5

    Rakka

    Moron Air Force Base 🙂

    Go rafale …

    Reply
  6. 6

    Indian Defence Information

    It should not affect on MMRCA. It might have happened due to pilot mistake or lack in training.

    Those pilot might have been on regular training………

    Reply
  7. 7

    Gautam

    Condolences, but what does it have to do with the MMRCA? Even the most advanced plane can have mishaps. F-16's had the most because it's served the longest.

    Reply
  8. 8

    Anonymous

    If no crash ever is the yard stick by which we pick our MMRCA winner, we will never pick, unless that air craft has not been flying for long. Yes, it's important to look at crash rates, but the fact is plane crash is nothing new in the military world, and the greater risk you take, the greater is the chance of a crash. If you allow time, sooner or later all aircraft tyes will crash… name one type that has been in service for 20+ years and never crashed. This will result in a closer look at the crash investigation report and a few other details of Eurofighter, but that's about it. RIP to the Saudi officer.

    Reply
  9. 9

    Rahul

    Shiv: Could you get to us what Moron stands for in MAFB?

    Reply
  10. 10

    Mr. Ra

    Perhaps some software needs to be replaced/reprogrammed, which does not properly differentiate between camel riding and a supersonic Mac-2 fighter.

    Reply
  11. 11

    Anonymous

    Arabs are coming from 7th century, they can't fly planes.

    Reply
  12. 12

    Anonymous

    Note that only the Saudi pilot died and the Spanish instructor ejected safely. Saudi's have crap for brains. This should in no way impact the Typhoon's chances in the MMRCA.

    Reply
  13. 13

    Anonymous

    Pilot error may have been a factor. BAE/EADS would provide an update to India regarding the incident, so it would not affect the MRCA.

    Reply
  14. 14

    Anonymous

    It would difficult to believe it is a newbie error by a Colonel of air force which supposed to be flying F-15?

    Wonder if the instructor forgot to inform the Saudi Colonel to use the ejection seat?

    Reply
  15. 15

    Anonymous

    RIP, but I do not see why all want rafale or EU-fighter, my list is :
    1. gripen
    2. EU-fighter
    3. Rafale

    The differences aren't too big, but noticable..

    Reply
  16. 16

    Anonymous

    Moron Air Base. And a dead Saudi Air Force "pilot".

    Hmmmm.

    Perhaps Saudis should go back to hiring Pakistani Air Force pilots on 'temporary' duties.

    Reply
  17. 17

    Anonymous

    The strange thing is, if a Russian MiG crashes the desi media is quick to label it a 'flying coffin', but when a 'western' aircraft crashes it is always the fault of pilot!

    Gripen has had some spectacular crashes (go search on youtube), so has F-16, and now Eurofighter Typhoon seems to be falling out of skies. Guess that leaves F-18 and Rafale as serious contenders for MRCA.

    Reply
  18. 18

    Jith

    Its always strange when i hear people comment about a western aircraft crash, the fingers first point towards pilot error. No one blames the fighter or the manufacturer.

    Reply
  19. 19

    Abhinaba

    go for F-18 Super Hornet…bt hire Internationally renowned negotiators to make sure we get evry bit of that pie….& using this issue bargain out all the necessary agreements frm Uncle Sam, i.e. like reprocessing, dual-use technology,EUMA,etc…

    Reply
  20. 20

    Anonymous

    According to Spanish Media, the crashed Eurofighter suffered a fatal technical error during the take off when it had reached a velocity of 200-300 km/h and after crossing the "point of no return". It crashed into the runway leaving little time for the two pilots to eject.

    I guess that the IAF and DRDO will get a copy of the crash investigation from the Spanish authorities.

    This is the second Eurofighter crash, the first one beeing a prototype. Both crashes in Spain by the way.

    Reply
  21. 21

    Anonymous

    @ Anon 4:23

    "Guess that leaves F-18 and Rafale as serious contenders for MRCA"

    Both the Rafale and the F-18 have had their share of crashes. Two Rafales crashed for not that long ago. One dead french pilot followed one of the Rafales to the bottom of the ocean and ha wasn't found until some weeks after the crash. The F-18 has racked up a number of fatal crashes during its time of service in different airforces.

    Reply
  22. 22

    Anonymous

    One should await the official report before drawing conclusions to the cause of this crash, whether it was pilot error, technical, or a combination.

    As for Gripen crashes: Only prototypes (development models) have crashed.

    Gripen NG seems the best choice for India. It does not make sense to spend too much on a 4.5 generation fighter that will in any case have limited survivability. India should go for Gripen NG, get the maximum ToT and accelerate development of their own 5. gen fighter, in collaboration with Saab and other Western companies.

    Reply
  23. 23

    Heberian aka K-LT

    F 18 Superhornet crashes: QUite a few, latest being in a suburb of San Diego ( Crashed aircraft till date = 2)
    Dassault Rafake crashes: Latest were 2 aircraft together in 2009 ( Crashed aircraft till date = 3)
    SAAB Gripen crashes : Latest in 2007( Crashed aircraft till date = 6, including crashes caused due to bad ejection handle design which caused an involuntary ejection leading to a crash)

    I am not sure we need to look into the crash rates of the remaining MMRCA competitors:), but rest assured, even the F 22 Raptor has crashed, the last being in 2009, when piloted by the experienced and respected test pilot David Cooley.

    RIP the Saudi pilot. I wonder how many of us who commented on Saudi flying skills here would clear the PABT held by our Airforce selection boards in Varanasi and Mysore…. before being qualifed to comment on piloting skills.

    Some respect for the dead is in order here.. not pathetic and misinformed diatribe. Lets not shame ourselves and our country.

    Reply
  24. 24

    Mr. Ra

    If an advanced aircraft is not camel rider friendly, then only on this account it need not to be eliminated from the MMRCA.

    However India must check that maximum permissible speed of the camel has not been fed as the maximum permissible speed of the aircraft and thus not allowing it to take off.

    Reply
  25. 25

    Heberian aka K-LT

    @ Abhinaba

    It is true that in the current recessionary economy,a deal worth 10 billion is large and coveted by industrial complexes of the competing countries/ consortium's.

    However, it is delusional for us to think that a 10 billion $ deal gives us enormous leverage or bargaining power with the US.

    Please consider some numbers before we delude ourselves in such manner:

    1) No of F18 Hornets in US Navy service till 2008 = 409 and in the USMC = 238, totalling 647. I am not sure how many have been added in the last 2 years. This is not counting exports.

    2) Also read up on the recent Saudi deal with the US, worth 60 billion US$. Yet we do not hear much "hulla" about how S. Arabia has the US by the balls…

    (Note- all numbers are from the public domain and verifiable as such)

    We will get the best aircraft based on 4 factors; IAF's recommendations and mileage gained in international relations and tech transfer and cost.

    Mileage gained and leverage of the sort you mention are very different ball games. The US does not need us as badly as we'd like to imagine.

    Reply
  26. 27

    Anonymous

    IAF should buy 60 EF AND 66 rafale

    Reply
  27. 28

    Anonymous

    Reading report from other sites and forums, it does seem the a/c suffered a technical failure. The reason Arab pilot was not able to eject had to do with altitude and the small amount of time from first appearance of problem to the crash.

    Poor guy, gotta feel sorry for a pilot in such situations no matter what his nationality.

    IAF should buy 60 EF AND 66 rafale
    This is not like purchasing soaps: "I will get three pears, two dettols, four doves…"

    Get a clue. IAF has a disastrously long and unmanegable logistical chain as it is. Introducing two new types will incapicitate the Air Force. We would be fortunate if we can induct a single new type even as older Migs are retired and personnel trained to work on modern machinery.

    Reply
  28. 29

    Anonymous

    Its 5, not 6 Gripens, and of those are 2 Prototypes, 2 A-version, 1-C Version, that was total losses.

    Gripen has never had any pilots dead or seriously wounded.

    the Royal Swedish airforce did order 800 from the begining but cut it down to around 200.

    The Gripen is by far the best cost effective, and allround system.

    The Volvo RM-12 Engine is safer then most engines and the new Volvo Engine that the NG Gripen will get will be aswell. Right now its powered by a General Dynamics Engine.

    And no the US can not stop it as it contains US parts, US figthers got Swedish parts aswell.

    //First Sergeant

    Reply
  29. 30

    Heberian aka K-LT

    [email protected]:24 pm –

    You are very well informed about the Gripen and its evolution. Apologies for my error!

    Isn't the RM 12 an F 404 with almost 60% of the parts still being made by GE and then shipped to Volvo Aero for final assembly?

    Will the NG's engine too be mostly a rebadged one?

    And one question I have been wondering about.. why is the EJ 200 not being considered for the Gripen at all?

    Won't having the EJ 200 powering the Gripen and most probably the Tejas be some kind of a trump card? Are there any particular reasons why the EJ 200 is not being considered for the NG?

    Please do write when you have a spot of time.

    Cheers.

    Reply
  30. 31

    War Hero

    I think India should buy Supermarine Spitfire — very stealthy!

    Reply
  31. 32

    Anonymous

    gripen has no combat experience and no units in service it is the least credible of all the fighter aircrafts in the tender

    Reply
  32. 33

    Anonymous

    [email protected]:08 PM –

    Gripen performed well in Red Flag and in numerous exercises in Europe.

    For instance Rafales combat experience consists of dropping bombs on arabs in caves with buddy lase from Mirage (Rafale had no own laser designator).

    Heberian aka [email protected]:33 PM –

    It's true that the RM 12 is a heavily modified GE F 404. A lot of the modifications have trickled into the GE F 414 series.

    Here is a good article about the modifications in swedish (use translation tool to another language) :

    http://techworld.idg.se/2.2524/1.174315/reaktionsmotor-12—bade-vacker-och-stark

    The GE F 414 is superior to EJ 200 (reliability and maintenance wise) and I would not think that SAAB will consider it for Gripen, but if a customer pays for the conversion anything is possible I guess.

    Reply
  33. 34

    Anonymous

    [email protected]:08 PM –

    Gripen is in frontline service with five different nations, check your intel.

    According to Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar
    "the Swedish Gripen NG is seen as being perhaps the only aircraft type which will deliver all that the IAF needs for the M-MRCA, including the vital requisite of maintaining strategic independence and at an affordable cost" :

    http://pdfcast.org/download/future-is-made-in-india.pdf

    Reply
  34. 35

    Anonymous

    I was refering to the new version gripen ng : no combat experience, no units currently in service, it is not credible and would be a bad choice when there are much better aircrafts in the tender

    Reply
  35. 36

    Heberian aka K-LT

    Anonymous @ 12:34 –

    Many thanks for the link to the article about the RB 12. Quite a good write-up. Translation was funny because some words remained in Swedish, but overall picture was clear.

    So, would RB 12 tech transfer involve single crystal tech as well?

    Reply
  36. 37

    Anonymous

    I will fill it it, the new Engine will be a RM 14, modified GE F 414
    aka GE F 414 G

    it will be the safest version of the GE F 414 andGripen NG.

    The Gripen NG is a future aircraft, like the JSF its not in service but will be soon.

    Gripen NG can carry most russian, american, Swedish, French, Brasilien, South African etc Missiles, bombs etc.

    I will talk about this some more:)

    The RBS 15F are also offered, anti ship missile.

    //First Sergeanten

    Reply
  37. 38

    Anonymous

    "The Gripen NG is a future aircraft, like the JSF its not in service but will be soon."

    Sweden is not the United States of America, though. Nobody will buy the Swedish fighter until it exists concretely in their own Air Force.

    Reply
  38. 39

    Anonymous

    Oh You forget that the F-16IN Block 70 are not in the US Service and will not be.

    The RSwAF will get the new Gripen in due time, however, SAABs products works very well, and are cheap, easy to use.

    Brazil for example will never fo for the SuperHornet.

    India have alot of Swedish gear and the full Tech transfear will be perfect for India.

    Same goes of developemnt of the SeaGripen

    //First Sergeant

    Reply
  39. 40

    Anonymous

    Morón is Spanish for small mountain or hill. No need to think in English always, there are so many other languages.

    Reply
  40. 41

    Anonymous

    The airbase is named Moron for a reason….

    Reply
  41. 42

    Anonymous

    Condolences to his family and Saudi Arabia people.
    The Saudi pilot is not a newbie, rather he is a Lieutenant Colonel of best Saudi Airfoces pilots and he had a great record espicaly with F15. He had engaged with some enemy combat aircrafts in his region. A formal investigation has been made by CITAAM becuase the Spanish instructor was in the first seat which was controlling the aircraft.

    Reply
  42. 43

    krishna

    flying coffin goes down………….crap eurofighter

    does it sound like the MIG…….even if its brandnew and the migs quite old

    PLZ. DONT BE BIASED

    Reply
  43. 44

    Anonymous

    Lots of bad news for eurofighter lately !

    http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/0,1518,714332,00.html

    google-translated
    "The operating costs for the Eurofighter are significantly higher than expected. With the price is € 73 992 per flight hour, almost twice as high as originally planned."

    " In February 2009, three Eurofighter attended the air show Aero India 2009 in part. India plans to purchase 126 new fighter aircraft. The Eurofighter is in competition. The promotional flight lasted 96 hours and it cost 7.1 million €."

    Eurofighter is awfully expensive. Can the IAF afford such an expensive bird ?!

    Reply
  44. 45

    Anonymous

    @ Ra said , you should be ashamed of yourself , what you said about saudi pilots was uncalled for , and unacceptable ,could you imagine his family and friends enjoying your sense humor .
    sir, the initial investigation indicates a flight control malfunction , and no pilot can overcome that in that stage of the flight .
    Even if it was his mistake that does not make it ok for you to make a joke about him or his country .

    Reply
  45. 46

    Anonymous

    The Saudi pilot died because of a design flaw with the ejction seat Quick Release Box – under the 'G' of ejection egress it is thought his hands unlocked the QRB. All EFs have been grounded as a result and a modification is in progress. RIP.

    Reply

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