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This one is cool, Shiv. I pity the Air Chief, ashamed of the 'wise' guy in the dark suit next to him. < DRDO ctrl alt del>.I hope we could some how get these guys and the whole govt, out of the country. And start anew! Remember India will be great without these clowns!
yeah Mathew dallas sure. But I'm sure your India is better off with vodka, Natashas, $$. And I'm sure that your India that you're dreaming of has no dearth of clowns like you who salivate at the sight of a F-22 and frown at something desi forgetting one's own color in the process
The chief is a warrior….u indians don't know what that means! In pak he would be respected as such. He made the defence of india his life not go abroad and get slapped by everyone whilst earning some money!!!
Can't imagine the good air chief to be happy with certain sources suggesting that the Mark-II, which one can only assume will be 4th generation, unless HAL gets REALLY lazy, won't be inducted till 2017.
DRDO chief looks like Chavez.
I know this is a great achievement and all the work involved ….Well I could'nt even imagine.
However, given the DRDO chief is a massive egg head with a powerful brain that few people have….he kinda looks like a dicator/gangster in this pic (the gold rings on all fingers, gold watch, gold sunnies, big gestring, plumpy etc).
The ACM must of been a little intimadated his fighters v the mighty DRDO & PSU's (we probably would have needed a new air force if that fight occured).
Well the ACM looks like he is thinking, crap is he making me an offer I cant refuse.
NICE PHOTO AND COMMENTRY SHIV.
@ Mathew Dallas – you sure are one funny dude. Perhaps Shiv should get someone to turn the country, or at least the services over to you. And you could come back from Dallas to Kerala and help us fix the system.
Anyway, some interesting pictures here:
@anon 2:54 Patriotism doesn't emanate from the mouth but rather from the heart and the head. HAL has been in and around B'lore for around 60 years what has it really done? It is not just about the Tejas but I mean the whole system. Inventing a mechanized bullock cart in the age of Rolls Royces is that what you are proud of? What I said all through was that the best could be done, if the Govt had stayed out of the picture and let the private firms do the thing, at least they would have put ' 2 brains to work as 1 instead of 1 working as 1'. You probably don't realize that this Tejas is too late… it is obsolete! It is a tamasha all this money,(taxpayersahhmm) gone into building this junk! The people in the Govt don't know what the armed forces need and they have no knowledge about future combat or battle strategy that is the reason why they are buying the MMRCA and signed the 30BILLION deal to buy T-50 or the PAK-FGFA(i am not for the F-35 either). This is the reason why I am crying out! You don't have to agree with me, but ponder over this, the future battles whether at sea or air or land will be carried out mostly by remote operated or unmanned vehicles. Does India keep on wasting valuable resources on things, outdated, unwanted and obsolete or develop intelligent weapons, (smarter)space based or loitering in the skies, listening in the mountains, watching under the sea.Defensive is smarter than offensive, and I think that should be the way.Right now because of HALs incapability we are giving 30Billion to the Russians 10Billion to whomever, to me it is heartbreaking(200000 crores worth)of jobs in India. Let clear sense prevail, think about our children if they be helped with their education, nutritious meals, better hospitals, better roads help for our widows, mothers, sisters, young entrepreneurs and the list goes on. Am I being patriotic….
DRDO walla was referring to this.
I support the Air Chief!
@ mathew dallas….well…we did manage to get you out…hopefully more shall follow soon!!!
@shiv…u seem to be forgetting the his clarificationi wouldnt accuse of reporting falsehood….but reporting only one part and having a blackout on the other doesnt do your credibility any good….[admittedly its your blog and you are free to do nything you please]
he seems to imply that its not 4 gen till it gets FOC….
just to clarify, this cartoon is supposed to be ironic. it doesn't represent my position on tejas. so people getting into a twist, chill.
Shiv at its best… Atleast your comments on IOC is far better than other idiotic journals.. Problems where there.. but who doesnt have?
Shiv, Can you confirm what exactly the ACM means for openly commenting it is not a 4th gen?.. If you could give some details.. it will be good..
anon!!! The rings VKS wearing is one for Rahu,one for ketu and another for shani!!!! with all this Gemstone shanti,still Agni wants to plunge in Bay of Bengal!!! may be Shani sahab wants Kohi-e-noor for appeasement!!!! VKS sahab please try to get Kohi-e-noor!!!With due respect to Agni team members who toil hard to make the flight a success!!!
I seldom Post, but can I say, your tone and your attitude towards LCA has been quite negative, top it all this picture is in absolute bad taste. Self Criticism is good, but some amount patriotism can do wonders, especially for scientists who are the most underpaid. LCA is ours, be proud.
The guy next to AK shab looks like MR.Bean…
Notice in that pic the MLA (in sec row with specs, u can notice him btw the two Heads of Chiefs) discussing with P.K.Subramanyam, ADA….I was wondering what that Idiot doing with that great scientist….Oh..he might be discussing whether he will be felicitated with garland or Gifts….
These morons MP and MLA destroyed the whole atmosphere in HAL…
That's right. You Anonymous critics here are greater than the DRDO chief and are serving the nation with your loud mouths. Next you'll be crying for the GOI to spend another $20B for a foreign fifth generation stealth fighter, while India's underprivileged are falling deeper and deeper into misery. Such geniuses you are!
Adarsh: allow me to introduce you to a concept called "irony". do yourself a favour and look it up.
It seems to me ACM is thinking "you are stopping all my channels for kickbacks"…no phoren mall no kickbacks. So ACM tells the Nira Radia supported press how crap this Tejas is like our Arjun (Leopard 2A4).
If it was irony that you were looking for, then it is an epic fail. And your pattern of reporting on the LCA isnt helping either.
@Adarsh Our scientists may be underpaid but they have a job for life,with pension & benefits whether they perform or not.
If it was the private sector they would be kicked out by now.You're talking about patriotism?Why dont you give up you job, pick up a gun and stand on the wall!
C'mon guys Shiv is only emulating Diogenes of Sinope, the Greek philosopher! As per Wiki -"Exhibitionist and philosopher, Diogenes is said to have eaten in the marketplace, urinated on some people who insulted him, defecated in the theatre, masturbated in public and pointed at people with his middle finger. Sympathizers considered him a devotee of reason and an exemplar of honesty. Detractors have said he was an obnoxious beggar and an offensive grouch."
You get the 'irony', don't you?
Blindly cheering whatever we do not mean patriotism. Introspection, ability to take stock and then deal with it, working wholeheartedly to get superior technologies.. all that is patriotism when it comes to defense R&D. Calling an inferior product superior is what kills us… being able to realistically proud of what we have achieved and using the lessons learnt is patriotism.
The LCA is a good a/c, but not what HAL would like to present it as. Accepting mediocrity will not only kill the men who have to fight, but also humiliate the country. Learning from mistakes and working to make superior products is what we need to do.
You are right about the salaries of our scientists, and we should be doing something to fix that if we are to hope for whole hearted, truly patriotic work. But that does not mean we have to accept that the LCA is an air superiority fighter, because it is not.
You think if you don't perform you will be molly coddled in PSUs? Leaders of officers association have been kicked out due to lack of performance. Whereas, unions in Pvt companies have recently lynched several officers and CEOs over trivial matters.Standing with a gun against the wall like a "bahadur" is patriotism? That's the job of doormen which you are confusing with patriotism.
How do you know Tejas is a "mediocre" a/c? This was exactly what the top brass of the Army were saying about Arjun, in order to ensure steady flow of kickbacks from Russians and other countries from where we import arms worth billions $ (thereby impoverishing the nation where people don't have food).Tejas is using an advanced US jet engine and avionics/radar from France, Israel etc apart from our own. EADS is assisting us in ironing out the glitches.Mere words of IAF chief won't suffice as they can't be trusted (Army chief summoned before PAC for corruption). We need technical data to validate their claims that Tejas is inferior. And of course, all a/cs have teething problems. Even EF is still undergoing modifications to make it a more potent a/c.
@MathewThe biggest stumbling block to India achieving her potential is Govt of Hindia which is basically a construct of the most corrupt party i.e. Con-I, where Nepotism is more important than merit. How economy of Punjab or Tamil Nadu is run has to be dictated by people of those states and not Govt of India which has no clue about the people or economy of these states.We need to reengineer the way India is governed which is rewarding backward states for their backwardness and corruption and penalizing competent states for their competence. Center should only look after Foreign relations and defense. The rest have to be run by the states as they deem fit.
Mathew Dallas, Do you ever read ? ADA and not HAL is developing the LCA. Assembling aircraft to a blueprint is completely different to designing & developing a 4 gen FBW aircraft. The model needs CFD studies, wind tunnel testing and finally the risky flight testing of the control laws. If god forbid, the LCA had crashed it's guys like you who will jump with joy and say 'I told you so India is just wasting money on a science project'.'The LCA is obsolete' Is that your opinion or did you come to that conclusion after studying the design, weaponry,fire control radar, power plant, air frame and avionics of LCA ? Because if it's the latter case, please enlighten us with references as to how LCA is obsolete.
I don't know about you but I would rather let DRDO scientists and engineers 'waste' my tax payer money on developing the Tejas which in turn has developed the whole MIC in aviation technologies within the country than have it siphoned away outside the country by random guys like A Raja who sold the country for something like spectrum.
Just for reading up sake please follow the link below to know the conditions in which people behind Tejas worked before who start ridiculing people with your ill informed opinions.
This seems a redux of Arjun where the Army hardly bothered to involve themselves with design and development of a product which is being built solely for them. If the IAF chief is whining about lack of performance why wasn't IAF involved with HAL/DRDO in designing and development of this a/c? Do they need special invitation from DRDO? Or they have some other motives for not involving in this project?
Pvt companies are profit driven and will do anything for the same (2g is proof…)…so if we entrust all the def research n production to them…is it conceivable they will create a situation where the products are used up creating a larger market for their products???
I believe more than irony its sarcasm on your part Mr Aroor. perhaps IAF chief should ask himself if he meets IAF requirements especially with his pot belly?
Is A C M Naik asking for larger Mk-2 becos he wouldn't fit inside the smaller cockpit of Tejas mk-1?
@ Anon 7:52Let me get this straight. According to what your saying you expect me to believe that a BSNL or Air India is more competent & efficient than an Airtel or Jetairways??
BTW, when i meant pick up a gun and guard the wall your stone age mindset didnt get the picture.If you seem to think that our armed forces are unpatriotic just because they dont shower rose petals over DRDO's so called indigenous pet project, then why dont you join the armed forces and guard the countries borders.
You sleep well at night because of our armed forces and because of DRDO scientists. WIth no competition there is zero incentive for innovation by DRDO.
you will also have to ignore the fact that pvt companies bend rules n force change of policy (even chage public perception through vetted news articles) to maximize profit…is it inconceivable that they will do so when they step into def R&D
about BSNL: its just about the only company you can depend on to get service @ remote locations…maybe they should stop all that and go all out competitive…..they seem to be the only company (telecom major) that pays taxes in proportion to market share..(refer to recent media reports)
want to go into airline cartels???
Wake and smell the coffee. Indian Pvt Cos are afloat due to monopoly and restrictive trade practices. R u aware that Govt is planning to stop foreign investments more than 46% in pharma sector as the local Cos can't compete with global players? Ranbaxy sold it's pharma biz and now they are into shares and financial products. Speaks volumes about their competency and capability in hi tec areas.BSNL and Air India, maybe inefficient but they are effective. The type of infrastructure they have Pvt Cos can never match.
Fyi, my father is a war hero and I don't need any lectures from a guy like u on "patriotism". If we don't earn enough and pay our taxes all sham patriotism (no one will fight for the nation for free) will disappear in thin air.Btw, country's borders are primarily guarded by BSF/SSB/ITBP and not Army.We sleep well at night is bcoz we sweat our arse off making India an economically stable country. Without a strong economy India as a country will be history.Finally checkout DRDO's HSDTV and no it is not a HD TV. LOL!
Ark Angel and Others of down with LCA bandwagon,
Indian Private Sector, You mean the same sector which has till now yet to make a proper automobile engine? You have no clue about who complex and hard is to make technologies from ground up in a country with india's background, history and org structure. Standing on the wall, That is rich, especially since you have no clue about what i do for a living or my social inclinations.
LOL!! that looks damn funny :D!
India is a great civilisation, Indians are a great people, why do you think Vasco Da Gama went out in search of India and not USA?
Great people with a great history and civilisation cannot be viped off the world, not when they are 1.2 Billion strong.
Now coming back to LCA, please remember ARJUN MBT, it was not accepted by the forces, and said to be not up to the mark, but now its said to be better than the T90s. Also the indian missiles were said to be not good but they are world class now.
I totally believe that the hard work, dedication, blood and sweat will pay dividends, the LCA is and will be a world class fighter. It will prove its worth when it is used in a war or war games, but to call our AirForce names is not to be fair to him and also to call our scientists and engineers by names is not to be fair to them. At first we cry for the LCA to be handed over to the IAF so that we can find the faults and deficiencies and correct it and better it. Thank God, the developers test flighted and tested till they were satisfied and now without a single crash they have produced a fighter aircraft. Just wait for two more years and the Tejas will be just the Tejas we all dreamed of.
Anon @ 8:03 PM
Please don't get so incensed. Excuse my choice of words; for what I wanted to say is that while LCA is a good effort, it definitly is not what HAL would like it be seen and accepted as.
Check its current weight, the effects of its wing root chord… and compare it with another a/c in a very similar weight class using the same engine; the Gripen (Not the NG or IN)
My wish is that we did not make such a song a dance about the LCA. We talk more and act less. We should accept the LCA Mk1 for what it is, learn from the mistakes and then work on making Mk2 something much better. Instead we go about giving self benedictions about what our a/c can do and what it is…
We need to deliver what our services NEED in order to defend us against the clear and present and growing dangers of our neighbourhood, rather than foist whatever we are able to make on them in the name of patriotism. That is not patriotissm, it is encouraging mediocrity.
Surely none of our private sector companies will be where they are today if they tried to give the customer whatever they can do comfortably rather than what he customer needs. Thats is the mediocrity I am talking about… not just the LCA as it is.
Well now if DRDO can come up wth a Indian Engine (not french JV one) purely Indian one then it can make a difference otherwise this pic mockery is justified
@ Anon 11:17 PM; @ BoatAngel aka NauPari
Air India maybe cient but they are effective?? Why dont you tell that to the families of the victims of the Mangalore aircrash! The govt pumps in millions of dollars of tax payer money to keep Air India afloat.What infrastructure? Both BSNL & AI are not even market share leaders and that speaks volumes of what the customer thinks of them.
FYI, India's economy started growing only after liberalization aka privatisaion.
About the pharma sector, its the govt who want to change policy because they fear that in an emergency foreign companies may control the prices & availability of generic drugs.Indian pharma sector launched 3900 new products in the last 2 yrs & is one the biggest manufacturers of generic drugs.Get your news reports right!
@ Adarsh This is not a cricket match where hubristic flag waving will make the team win. They'll win if they perform. Same goes for the LCA.
I bet you enjoyed life more in the license raj era than now.
@ ArkAngel eh…do u even know what generic drug is…do u know that original patent holders try to extend patents by changes (non-significant) so as to get patents extended to keep out the generic drug manufacturers
Indian pvt sector has done the manufacturing part and done it well in many fields..they copy foreign technology by paying a fee
R&D ..well not so much
sure…if BSNL choose to run after only profits (and forget remote areas..like most pvt companies….they dont have any infrastructure there and if they do provide service…its using BSNL equipment by paying a fee which is decided by TRAI)…they could come up with better numbers …(also lets not go into recent reports of pvt companies showing inflated subscriber bases although that might have been only done to get more spectrum )..
That crash happened bcoz of the "tabletop" runway which has been deemed unsafe by many people.
Much of what I wanted to say has been answered by Anon7:19 PM. I want to add that the infrastructure for Pvt telecom and it's operation is provided by companies like Alcatel, Erickson, Nokia etc. (Now I guess some of them have tied up with Chinese Cos to provide them similar facilities – Heaven help us).
As far as pharma is concerned Western MNCs no longer enjoy any monopoly as far as generic drugs are concerned. Chinese drug manufacturers are giving them a run for their money. Therefore there cant be an cartels to control the prices of generic drugs as there are too many diverse players.
Our Indian Cos are whining for protection as they can't compete. They are good at copying and producing products cheaply which have become off patent. No R&D which is where the real risk and money is. Similar saga will unfold in defense sector if we include the fat corrupt incompetent Indian Pvt Cos. First let them prove their worth and then they can be partnered in defense sector. Otherwise it will be theft in another name for which the gullible poor citizens will pay the price. They will get multi billion$ foreign tech for free which will be bankrolled by ignorant and gullible masses. The final product will also be lapped up by "defense" at exorbitant prices which will again be provided by the taxpayers (this setup is a hedge against loses in commercial mkt which is facing global competition).
Video of J-20 flying -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jylJ91ewe0s
Enough of DRDO working on outdated crap!
@ anon 0f 859
tomorrow ur Dad puts u in a Phd Course (just coz ur Neighbours son started his Phd) even though you havent finished your Masters ..how would it go..grand failure
we messed up by not going after 3rd gen AC…so we will have to wait as our scientists learn ..(and they will have to make a lot of mistakes while at it .. if u havent made mistakes..u havent learnt well)..unless u know of any spectacular geniuses who can learn at a much faster rate
anon @ 12:57 AM, while our scientists are learning from scratch and busy getting their Master's degree while developing/learning 3rd gen tech, the chinese PhDs are reverse engineering and mass producing 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen tech. How many mistakes have we made – A LOT! Arjun, Akash, and of course the LCA. All these projects are way too late. While you and your buddies at DRDO have been busy learning how to build a transistor radio using vacuum tubes from scratch (Tejas), the Chinese have reverse engineered digital transcievers (Su-27) and built several of them cheaper and learnt how to improve on that tech and ended up building a 5th gen J-20. At the end of the day, what is flying up in the sky that is able to defend/offend is what counts. And all this while, the parents (defence forces) has been at a standstill waiting for the promise of fruits of paying for your tuition fee!
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