What to read next

50 Comments

  1. 1

    Manu

    Thanks for these amazing pics of Arjun MBT.

    Cheers

    Reply
  2. 2

    Anonymous

    Finally I see the Arjun in action.

    Thank you Shiv Ji for posting these photos of Arjun.

    Reply
  3. 3

    vinod

    wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!

    Reply
  4. 4

    Anonymous

    its Hummer H3 of deserts.

    Reply
  5. 5

    KVR

    The officer seems to be typically politically correct. The photos look good but multi crore question – is it doing what its supposed to do or is still 'waiting for Mk2'?

    Reply
  6. 6

    IamBob

    Now that's a proper piece of machinery right there…
    Good work shiv!

    Reply
  7. 7

    Anonymous

    That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in a home grown product. How about the trials for the tin can T-90 ? I only hope when Arjun MK-2 comes around I don't hear that Corps Commander is looking forward to wet dream called FMBT.
    Thanks a ton Shiv for those pictures. You made my day. How many Arjuns did you see deployed in the operations ?

    Reply
  8. 8

    Anonymous

    All I can say I am speechless. Wonderful. At first glance it doesn't look bulky at all, more like a sniper. Good job.

    Reply
  9. 9

    Anonymous

    Ah, come on Shiv. If you watermark so much, how will Mr. Oh-so-naive Geopolitics editor "write" articles…

    Reply
  10. 10

    DHRUV

    you have watermarked alll the images in between, it spoils the image.ur tag at the bottom was enough.can't even make it my desktop background.
    thou a nice job…………..
    would hav been great if it was crusing down the desert jut lk one of t72 u posted here:)

    Reply
  11. 11

    sents

    Good pics.Is arjun mk2 getting a indigenous engine?

    Reply
  12. 12

    Anonymous

    Clearly, the officer does not appear to be satisfied with the tank in its present form.

    Reply
  13. 13

    panic

    Do we need the Watered Down T90 anymore, we have the Tank Hunter Arjun MBT.
    Eagerly Waiting for Mk2.

    Reply
  14. 14

    Anonymous

    please dont watermark image 1,8 adn 9

    Reply
  15. 15

    Black Hawk

    I am totally disappointed!

    The Arjuns carry the red flag which I think means that they are mimicking enemy tanks (Shiv please confirm if I am right or wrong).

    The army is just using these tanks as showpieces. They are not being used as integral elements of our strike formations.

    Reply
  16. 16

    Jith

    Thanks a lot Shiv

    Reply
  17. 17

    Anonymous

    It appears DRDO has assembled Arjun to satisfy their egoes rather than to be fighting machine for a user. It is finally the user who has to ditermine if a periclualr piece of assembled machine can fulfill their mission fulfilment requirement.

    The way all "shisys" of Gen Saraswat are pushing Arjun out of sheer prejudices and potraying the users in the bad light is not good for the prospects of Arjun.

    Plain and simple.

    There is nothig in Arjun which DRDO can claim to be their own. For user it does not even has emotional value except for a name, perhaps. Saraswats Arjun is unneccesarily trying to compare with Guru Drona's Arjun.

    Reply
  18. 18

    Anonymous

    Hi! Thanks for the images. I agree with Dhruv, i would be nice to have them with little less intrusive watermark. Cheers – gred

    Reply
  19. 20

    Mr. Ra

    Arjun arrives and the Big Bang occurs…

    Reply
  20. 21

    Shiv Aroor

    I hate watermarking photos too. Unfortunately, I don't have a choice. Too many of my photos are lifted and used on other sites (and magazines!) without a credit and backlink (both fair use norma). Until a time when my photos aren't stolen, we're going to have to live with watermarks, sadly. It's a bad world :(. There are commercial magazines and journals that steal my photos, and that is unacceptable, since Livefist is completely free. I'm sure you guys understand.

    Reply
  21. 22

    Mr Singh

    Shiv

    Thank you for the pictures please carry on the good work and i hope other people understand its no nice feeling when your property is stolen and thats why we have locks on our houses and Shiv is doing same for his goods to be protected.

    We dont need more thiefs like Mr Prakash Nanda.

    Reply
  22. 23

    Sameer

    Watermarking is fine but you can at least change the style. You should look for portions with rich texture so that removing watermark is near impossible, but at the same time you should spare the object.

    For example, in first image, you could have placed watermark little lower and over the sand from where it would be really difficult to remove while sparing the Arjun (placing watermark on sky would be useless). You might argue that someone can still lasso out the object. But if you choose to be cynical, I think there is no end to it.

    Reply
  23. 24

    Anonymous

    Hi Shiv,

    great pics. hope u could see some firing… ask them abt Arjun's move and fire capabilities…

    Reply
  24. 25

    Anonymous

    I don't see any ERA??!!….its a sitting duck without it.

    Reply
  25. 26

    Anonymous

    wow …. they look damn good ….

    Reply
  26. 27

    Akash..

    Thanks a lot shiv.. You really made me Happy.. 🙂 please post some video if you have….

    Reply
  27. 28

    Rohan

    Good to see the indigenous Arjun being part of the Army's offensive excercises…

    for those who are critical, I want to remind you that when Kia and Hyundai first came out with the cars, they could not even go up a slope without difficulty…my friend's first Kia broke its axle within the first year.

    Developing capability is an incremental process and there are various stages of maturity before you reach the stage of having a world class product.

    Reply
  28. 29

    Anonymous

    Hi Shiv,
    Beautiful pictures.
    But it raises few questions.
    Any WW2 documentary or Top 10 Tanks list, we see T-34 as the best tank. One main reason was its sloped edges. I fail to see any similar slopes on Arjun. Compare it with any modern tanks and you see its turret missing slopes. Its like a big block over block. Slopes help increase the available thickness. Is this a known exclusion from Arjun? or did DRDO/ARDE made a blunder? Any insights on this can be helpful.

    Thanks

    Reply
  29. 30

    Anonymous

    Anom @1:33

    If Arjun having straight face is DRDO blunder, then the maker of T-34, the Russian might have made even bigger blunder.

    T-90 also has a straight faced, boxed turret!

    The slope you see on T-90 is ERA bricks.

    And guess what both have composite armour, one reason for "not being slopped".

    Reply
  30. 31

    Anonymous

    I don't see any armor on the tank even though these are the final product delivered to army.

    Reply
  31. 32

    Anonymous

    anon @ 9.09 pm you seem to think ERA is the mai-baap of all armor protection. May I remind you that the Arjun survived a direct hit because of it's Kanchan composite armor. True, the Arjun MK-2 is getting ERA panels in addition to the Kanchan but if you think ERAa are the be-all end all protection you need read this post from Ajai Shukla and think again:
    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2008/08/t-72-vulnerability-again-illustrated-in.html

    Those unfortunate T-72s had the ERA jewellery on them. I'm glad Arjuns are playing the role of aggressors because that's exactly the hunter killer role they'll be employed for.

    Shiv, as far your comment goes that"Let's hope the Mk.2 is everything the Arjun was not" that'll hold as long as the army doesn't keep shifting the goal posts and becomes a full fledged stake holder with CVRDE instead of pretending to be a hard ass'ed customer (I wish the Army showed the same spine standing up to the T-90 bull shit of the Russians)

    Reply
  32. 33

    Ram

    Very good pictures Shiv. Atlast the Arjun is in an exercise. Do go ahead with the water marking, However see if you can reduce the size of the Watermark in the form of a seal and have it in two or three places in the image.

    Reply
  33. 34

    Generic Troll

    What? No sloped turret?

    Why do those crew-members look like unprofessional uncles?

    Etc…

    Reply
  34. 35

    Anonymous

    Sloped Edges on the turrent
    – Sorry if you misunderstood my comment, but when i said block over block, i did not mean ERA blocks, but i meant that whole tank looks like a small cuboid over a big cuboid.

    If you see pics of any other tank like T-90, T-72, M1A1 Abrams, Challenger 2, Leopard, Merkava 4, you would see that front face of the turrent is sloped.

    This helps deflect the tank shells better than a flat face.

    Arjun might have a kanchan composite armour or ERA blocks, but this looks more like a basic feature to be designed.

    Constructive arguments are appreciated than stupid replies.

    Reply
  35. 36

    JJ

    Anonymous @1:52:

    For sloped armour to be effective, the projectile has to hit the tank at a certain angle. Even with straight armour plates, most projectiles fired will hit it at an angle instead of hitting it straight on as most people think. Also, you should read something about how different kinds of armours work.

    Reply
  36. 37

    Anonymous

    @Anon 1:52

    Tanks like Abrahams, Leo, Merk have slopped turret because of the material which makes it's armour. They heavily use steel, hence providing a slopped surface for a projectile gives more steel depth.

    Composite armor don't follow that concept. Take a example of a bullet flying through a layer of steel,jelly,water,air and then steel. The bullet will have different velocity based on the material it is traveling in, just like sound! Pure Physics.

    The concept of composite is to provide such a combination that the projectile slow down considerably. A slopped armour will brake the composite,rather than entering through individual layers. Check the turret structure of T-90 and Chally.

    Let us no assume makers of Arjun are that stupid.

    Why ERA? gives protection against a exploding shell,where composites by default is not ideal.

    Reply
  37. 38

    Anonymous

    JJ,

    Why should I read when I already know everything.

    Sarcasm aside, why is the whole "sloped armor" thing still continuing? People who are actually interested in armor and are commenting here should by now understand that armor, especially composite armor is very complex business and not a case of slapping on steel sheets.

    How about this, people who are convinced that sloped armor is better than flat armor by XX% should just read up on composite armor before commenting. Small task what say?

    No offense intended but please do not assume that you are some genius who has figured out that if armor thickness is "X" and by sloping it by angle "y" you present a greater thickness of "X/cos y". There is a lot more to armor design now in this age of long rod penetrators.

    Reply
  38. 39

    Anonymous

    anonymous..
    dead wrong, M1 does not have a sloped face due to it's composition of steel. Chobham armor is ceramics, kevlar, and in the case of U.S. M1's DU as well.

    Reply
  39. 40

    Gautam

    The Abrams, LeClerc etc also have composite armor: Just clarifying. The sloped outer surface is still advantageous no matter what the armor type.

    The upgraded Russian T-90SM also has sloped reactive armor.

    Reply
  40. 41

    IamBob

    I'm sure then can add sloped armor later on. German Lepopard has a very similar design to the Arjun and use to be "blocky" too. But in the later version of the Tank they seem to have added sloping armor.

    Reply
  41. 42

    Anonymous

    Let me see if I understand it correctly:

    Sloped Armor advocates here want the Arjun to follow the Leopard example and strap on more armor and increase the weight further?

    AND

    Go for a complete redesign of the sights because they will have to be moved to the top like the Leopards as the new armor will obstruct the view. Guess how long a redesign of the turret will take.

    And now to make for a sensible discussion, can we please have someone tell us what theoretical advantage in terms of penetration millimetres and what practical advantage in terms of scenarios will such a costly exercise provide.

    Reply
  42. 43

    Karthik Soundarajan

    Arjun looks like the boss out there. Its just massive and awesome. I hope we can beat the South Koreans in the tank market and sell a few of these.

    Reply
  43. 44

    IamBob

    To the genius (sarcasm) at 2:08:
    I doubt a few plates of armor would significantly affect the weight to power ratio.

    And if that change makes the Arjun better, then I don't care if it means "redesign of the sights."

    Clearly, winning the fight, the battle, or the war is more important than the inconvenience of adding on a few more plates.

    Leopard before: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard-2a4-kl5.jpg

    Leopard after: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard-2a5-kl19.jpg

    If the Germans could do it, why not India?

    Reply
  44. 45

    Anonymous

    Hello Bob,

    Im the genius 🙂 Actually I'm not (Surprise!!) which is why I'd still need somebody to explain what effect the addition of "a few plates"(what weight?) will have on the penetration resistance of the turret. Please see if you can express that in either percentage or effective millimetres of steel.

    Which prevalent weapons or expected weapons is the Arjun currently vulnerable to, that the addition of such sloped armor will make it resistant?

    Lastly, it might just be a matter of us having a slightly different attitudes to life, but rather than asking, "Why cant we do it if the Germans did it?", I'm more likely to ask, "Do we need to do it? what is the gain and what is the cost?"

    I really think that the logic of, "Lets do it coz the Germans did it", or "I THINK sloped armor must be really awesome", is very very weak. I hope I can find a better reason for why we should embark on a time consuming and energy sapping journey of redesigning the Arjun turret.

    Reply
  45. 46

    Anonymous

    Hi Bob,

    Genius here again 🙂

    A quick glance at composite armor gives me these snippets from Wikipedia (please put forth counter arguments from more reliable sites if you disagree with quoting Wikipedia):

    "Ceramic tiles draw little or no advantage from sloped armour as they lack sufficient toughness to significantly deflect heavy penetrators. Indeed, because a single glancing shot could crack many tiles, the placement of the matrix is chosen so as to optimise the chance of a perpendicular hit, a reversal of the previous desired design feature for conventional armour. Ceramic armour normally even offers better protection for a given areal density when placed perpendicularly than when placed obliquely, because the cracking propagates along the surface normal of the plate" (From the wikipedia section on Chobham Armor)

    Here is another quote:
    "Another development decreasing the importance of the principle of sloped armour has been the introduction of ceramic armour in the seventies. At any given area density, ceramic armour is also best when mounted more vertically, as maintaining the same area density requires the armour be thinned as it is sloped and the ceramic fractures earlier because of its reduced normal thickness." (From the wikipedia section on sloped armor)

    So it seems like even for the Leopard, the main protection comes from the composite/spaced armor which is flat and slab sided, with the add on sloped armor providing some additional protection. Now if someone could point out what the MAGNITUDE of this extra protection is, then we could have a better idea of whether it is worth going for the extra weight and the extra time and the extra expenditure. Remember that the Indian Army's main problem with the Arjun is weight, and now maybe even the cost.

    Now I beg you to not say, "Well the Germans must be idiots then, they didn't read wikipedia". Please contribute.

    Reply
  46. 47

    Anonymous

    JUST A THOUGHT

    Turret Arjun with gun and thermal image
    Base t-90 with more power ful engine
    think…….

    Reply
  47. 48

    IamBob

    Re: Genious
    I'm not an Engineer or Scientist. I have no idea how or if adding sloping armor on the Arjun will make it safer or better. All I am saying is that if it does indeed improve the Arjun, then they should do it.

    Reply
  48. 49

    Anonymous

    Bob,

    It was not my intent to put you in a spot.

    Lots of people are clamoring for sloped armor in here. So much so that this desire to see sloped armor has translated into – "Arjun doesn't have sloped armor, therefore it is an obsolete piece of crap"

    The problem is that when enough people say it, then it becomes the accepted wisdom. Subsequently if somebody comes along and says that composite armor is much superior to traditional armor and that it works best when it is not sloped in order to offer a perpendicular face to the projectile, then he is ridiculed and dismissed.

    I have urged everybody to do a basic read on composite armor and sloped armor and how they resist KE penetrators, HEAT rounds, ATGM rounds etc.

    Finally I'd request everybody to kindly think for a minute about how 60 tons of the latest armor is useless unless you add 4.5tons of sloped steel sheets. The 4.5tons is what the Leopard 2A5 has as the add-on sloped armor.

    Please, think.

    Reply
  49. 50

    iambob

    ^Well, well….
    I hate to say I told you so (I actually don't hat it, in-fact, I'm gonna do a bit of gloating here), but I told you so!

    http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2564/imgarjun2crop2.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Im0iro9i0Uk/T50_Zo1OoWI/AAAAAAAAP-c/fPZEstrFi7s/s1600/Arjun+Mk+II+graphic.jpg

    What do you have to say for yourself now?
    🙂

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Copyright © . All rights reserved.