Friday, May 14, 2010

EXCLUSIVE: India's Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT)

The Indian Army is still juggling concepts of precisely what it wants from its Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT), but information shared with LiveFist provides a rare broad glimpse into work very much in progress as far as qualitative requirements for the future platform go. The Army's FMBT wish-list, in no particular order follows.

The Army insists that stealth be built into the FMBT from the ground up -- including paints/materials to provide limited invisibility in IR/visible spectrum and for scrambling and avoidance of detection. The Indian Army wants the tank to have an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system "to obviate chances of own tanks firing at each other in battle", and a whole new reliable and secure mobile communication system capable of data transmission, audio and video conference. Protection in the form of soft-kill system requires IR detectors, laser warning, radar warning and devices to instantaneously integrate these signals and control a countermeasure suite. Such systems are threat specific so all would have to be carried on a vehicle to gain protection against more than one part of the EM threat spectrum.

The new tank necessarily needs to espouse hybrid electric vehicle technology and incorporate digital vehicle electronics (vetronics) to provide intra-vehicle and inter-vehicle communication capability that will greatly improve sit awareness and enhance operational effectiveness.

For mobility, in order to achieve ‘extraordinary’ acceleration, the Army observes that it is necessary to couple the conventional diesel engine of the proposed tank to a turbine. The ‘Hyberbar’ engine will be able to accelerate from zero to full power at 1,500 hp in 2.8 seconds, while a conventional diesel engine requires 8-12 seconds. The quest for more compact power pack has led to renewed interest in gas turbines, which needs to be explored, the Army feels.

The Army wants an active suspension system with sensors, control units, and a hydraulic power source in combination, to automatically alter the suspension characteristics to more closely match the speed of the vehicle and the terrain profile, especially in Indian terrain conditions.

The Army has always held the view that signature management was almost completely ignored in the development of the Arjun. The Army hopes that lesson has been learnt now. Current and expected future threat scenarios require signature management measures of a multi spectral type, and they require an extremely short reaction time. The Army says it requires signature management in design measures, basic camouflage, additional camouflage and temporary camouflage.

Explosive Reactive Armour Now! The Army points out that the main battlefield threats against tanks are Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGMs), unguided anti tank rockets and grenades; shaped charge High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) gun rounds; Kinetic Energy (KE) gun rounds; and top-attack weapons like intelligent sub-munitions, terminally guided artillery rounds, etc. There is a need for developing Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA). Given optimised designs, integrated ERA offers tanks highly effective protection against both the penetrators of Armoured Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) projectiles and the jets of shaped charge weapons, including those with tandem warheads.

The Army says it wants a high-performance armour system on its FMBT with advanced materials incorporating the following qualities (a) Reduced penetration by most lethal weapons, (b) Elimination of parasitic mass leading to a weight reduction, (c) Excellent corrosion resistance, (d) Inherent thermal and acoustic insulation properties.

The Army has stressed that the FMBT needs Infra Red (IR) detectors, target identification systems, laser warning systems, radar warning receivers and devices to coordinate their signal and instantaneously control a countermeasures suite. These countermeasures fall into two categories: soft-kill system and hard-kill system. The soft kill sensors must discriminate true and false targets and they must discriminate between missiles or other rounds that threaten the vehicle being protected and those that will miss or are aimed at other targets.

The Army wants an Automatic Protection Systems (APS) on the FMBT. The radar should determine threat levels adequately, and the self-defence rockets should not cause high levels of collateral damage, particularly to accompanying dismounted infantry.

Of course, weapons. Conventional tube weapons are the product of a mature technology, and have now reached a high level of performance. However, on account of the gas-dynamic processes of thermally transformed powder, the muzzle velocity of projectiles is theoretically limited to approximately 2,300 m/s. Contemporary tank guns still offer a considerable growth potential, and electronic guns will be able to exceed this and become an attractive proposition. Tank-fired missiles, which carry shaped-charge warheads, were susceptible to various countermeasures, especially reactive armour. The Army says it is reasonable to expect development of high velocity KE missiles with heavy-metal, long-rod penetrators to defeat current and future tanks both within and beyond line of sight. Such extended-range missiles would enable armoured vehicles to engage targets beyond the direct fire zone. The high/medium-energy level (100 kJ) vehicle-mounted laser is expected to be a lethality option against rockets, air vehicles, light ground vehicles, antennas of armoured vehicles and electro-optical sensors. Hard-kill system to provide full-spectrum defence against top attack weapons, ATGMs, guided missiles and gun-launched KE and HEAT rounds.

Fire Control System (FCS): Ground sensors, non-line-of-sight launch system and the network capability will enhance soldiers’ understanding of their situation in dynamic battlefield conditions by promoting a common perspective of enemy and friendly locations on digital maps and provide timely actionable intelligence.

Very importantly, the Army has stressed that there is a need to manufacture modern simulators using lasers, micro-processors and magnetic tapes, thereby creating near actual combat conditions during training. Development of driving, gunnery and tactical simulators.

80 comments:

Avi said...

after all the drama staring arjun, now the army wants the hole world in a box...:), Indian version of star wars

Anonymous said...

Man that's one long wish list!!! Did they set a target date for it?? I didn't anything on there that didn't seem CAPABLE of NOT doing, as most of the stuff they want exists in other countries. The Hyperbar tranny, and the terrain hugging suspension seems like they might take up all the time, along with well some stealth technolgies and getting the proper range of the missiles, but other than that a VERY FEASIBLE project!!!
Now how much of this is Brouchuritis?? Who knows, seems like IA own's requirements + some copy paste GOD SPEED DRDO!!!!

Anjaneya said...

the army wants a hybrid electric tank AND a hybrid diesel-turbine powerpack? what the heck? does it mean they want diesel, electric and turbine power in the FMBT?
to answer their wishlist, bramha himself has to come.

Anonymous said...

No VTOL capability? :-)

And why is it that T90, which has all of these flaws (such as 'complete lack of signature management in Arjun') and then some, has been ordered in the 1500s and Arjun has to do with a piddly 124 order?

The T90 acquisition is shaping up as the biggest scam in the Indian Army history.

Anonymous said...

Usual list of crazy requirements dreamt up by an Army col after a night with Johnny Walker and a copy of Janes. Many of these so called advanced features can be implemented on the Arjun via improvements, eg APS and soft kill systems, signature management - but the Army wont even order more than 124. Seriously, the Army needs to do something about the kind of people it inducts and their utter lack of understanding of the basics of product development. They routinely ask for the moon via exaggerated, imaginative wish lists like you mentioned, and then proceed to browbeat and run down the developers every chance they get, when they can get imported brochures to compare against. With such a kid in a toy shop mentality, the Indian Army will never be able to induct home made weapons in sizeable effect.

Anonymous said...

This wishlist is a pie in the sky khayali pulao (one step beyond brochureitis/best of brochure approach!!), that has no correlation with existing technology, industrial or scientific capability

Marcus said...

what are these guys smoking?

Abhiman said...

The T90 acquisition is shaping up as the biggest scam in the Indian Army history.

Absolutely no doubt about that. The T-90 scandal is magnitudes bigger than Bofors. The only difference is, that this time instead of a political party, the perpetrators are the Army --- which the ordinary public regards as a Holy cow, not to be touched.

Abraham said...

I think this is historic and shows India moving away from followers to leaders. True leadership style

To Anjaneya.. I work for a large Construction Equip Co. which is the leader in Diesel-Elec hybrid drive for heavy duty app. The Diesel Engine of such hybrids are much smaller as they only need to run withing a narrower range. So wether it is a rotary turbine or a reciprocating engine, the engine would be smaller compared to diesel only. The issue is going to be integration of turbine to reciproc engine. This would be where DRDO will have to cut a path all by themselves. Diesel Elec hybrid is already available.

Anonymous said...

Target date for it,is 2050

Chandan said...

The boy has asked for a very expensive n imported candy from the daddy ...

They forgot to specify the speed...which should be a minimum of
MACH 2...

The tank should have its own RADAR ..AESA.. preferably...

It also must have the capability to fire BRAHMOS..

Should be capable of AIR to GROUND Refelling...by..IL-78..

Rest i will post later.

GOD knows how DRDO will react...

Anonymous said...

What a load of Bull shit! No wonder DRDO takes 30 years to build a tank. Hey, Indian Army - stop reading brochures and trying to impress Indians.
Lasers, ERA, Hybrid Engines, Stealth - Does anyone on the global map have such features yet?
These people are hyperventilating. Here is the good news.
The Indian Army has to induct Arjun in its present form.
India will never be able to manufacture the FMBT - it will have to purchase it - unless we steel ourselves to wait another decade.
How much will the FMBT weigh? Why no imformation on the mm of the gun? The engine HP? Howitzer? ATGM? Anti Ballistic missiles SAM?
Lasers spec? Anti-Laser armour? The information on the specs of the engine is good. Maybe Russia and India can jointly produce the engine?
Good Luck...Godspeed!

Praetor said...

Have anybody CC'd this to the folks at DRDO who are working on MBTs ?? They will crap their pants when they go through the list.

As far as the "hybrid" tank part, I think they don't mean electric! Electric would imply batteries and with all those bells and whistles they are asking for, there's not going to be any place for -"batteries"!!

They forgot to add, para-capability and/or amphibian capabilities to the tanks. As long as they are asking for the impossible, they might as well throw those demands in there with the rest!

Sparsh said...

You people are looking at this wish list from entirely the wrong perspective.

You presume the Army wants a tank out of its FMBT program. It wants no such thing. The FMBT program is designed to be a wild goose chase to keep the DRDO busy developing an unobtainable uber-tank for years to come while the Army keeps on buying its beloved T-90.

Anonymous said...

Shiv and others ran a hack piece on DRDO, will they now have the guts or balls to take on the Army and show these requirements for what they are, namely gas?
Yeah, but that will take guts, far easier to pick on DRDO babus ..defence journalism in India will have arrived when it starts questioning the fat brass and not just toe their line via motivated leaks

Anonymous said...

they missed to add warp drives to the specs and i almost forgot torpedo launching capability.

Daanish said...

these requirements are more in line with the xk2 tank, than anything else.
As always to ambitious but without ambition we wont get anywhere.

good time to restructure the drdo, this will make a good first project.
This only adds impetus to modernise the industry and develop new technology.

Most of the same accusations were leveled against the tejas also.

Anonymous said...

Ok, rest of the story...

DRDO agrees to the wishlists and promises to build the tank within 5 years. 5 years down the line, Army has changed the requirements 500 times.

2025: India still imports T-100(repainted T-90).

chex said...

without collaboration with other country...its very tough!!!......pray it wll not take another 30 years........may be we have to improve arjun mk 1.....make it mature stage by stage..time by time....not like we wll make FMBT with new design, new technology, new this-that...

Anonymous said...

It's not that these capabilities cannot be developed.
It can be done.
But
It will take time.
So instead of waiting for the final dream tank. The Army and DRDO must work with the objective of acehving the first FMBT=MK1 by 2020 that's within ten years time. So during which time what are the technologies that can be developed and incorporated need to be looked into and the first tank must come without all those requirements. But still it will be a tank that will be superior to anything at that time. The FMBT MK1 must start production by 2020. The next stage will be improving on MK1 design to incorporate technologies as they come in. Then after producing say 600 of these MK1 the MK11 can go into production.

Anonymous said...

Some of the technologies that will be possible with MK1 variant will be
1. A 1500 hp engine as the work on it may be continuing.
2. The invisibility part. This may not be 100% invisible, but to the extent possible especially IR suppression paints etc.
3.The communication and BMS that goes into Arjun MKII can go into the first lot of FMBT-1. Later on these can be improved with digital electronics etc or if the time permitting and the capability available with us, we can go for fully digital FMBT-1. But the Army must be flexible in this regard to ensure tank goes into production by 2020.
This time around we must ensure that FMBT is inducted on time. For that rather than stick to all aspects of the tank to have all the bells and whistles, the army must go in for incremental development of FMBT. But still I don't understand why the Army is not inducting the Arjun's in large numbers even though ti's better than T-90's. Why still go for 1000's of Tin cans when the DRDO has provided all the capabilities that has been asked for an incredible tank like Arjun. What's happening? Why not 1000's of battle winning arjun's rather than 1000 Tincans.

Anonymous said...

The Army must be running out of ideas to be able to only come up with such a short list! Once all these are delivered, what next? Will Army then demand that it travel at Warp 10? And then choose inability of DRDO to meet these 'basic' requirements to finally go with the 'advanced' Russian T-34?

Anonymous said...

Good posts guys. For even better laughs, just visit BR, where they are laughing their hearts out on these "hallucinating" requirements.

On this blog, the best comments I liked were as follows ---

Usual list of crazy requirements dreamt up by an Army col after a night with Johnny Walker and a copy of Janes.

No VTOL capability? :-)

Should be capable of AIR to GROUND Refelling...by..IL-78..

Anonymous said...

Army is deliberately giving a difficult target so as to paint the Arjun in a negative light. Someone high up in the Army desperately wants to belittle the Arjun as far as possible so that corruption in T90 acquisition is not brought to light.

The CBI must be asked to investigate T90 acquisition which may indeed be far bigger than Bofors scam. Let's hope corrupt IA officers didn't sellout just for a tumble in the bed with a cheap phoren whore.

Something needs to be done immediately about the corruption in the armed forces.

Anonymous said...

Great list, awesome... looks like Army wants DRDO tied up for the next 50 years... Maybe they should float an open competition for that... see how many tank makers in the world respond to that.. and oh yeah.. could probably order more T XX after emphasizing how DRDO could not deliver the next FMBT on time... Great going... these guys wanna fly without even trying to crawl.. great going...

Anonymous said...

This looks like an essay on tank tech trends. Are you sure this is a requirements document?

madnar said...

Marcus said...
what are these guys smoking?

Yeah, would like to know what they are smoking !!!
Is this what the Army wants?
What is the time frame ?

Anonymous said...

They may as well ask for a flying tank. That would save us $5.8 billion by making C17 import redundant.

Anonymous said...

wow..that is one heck of a list...hmm makes me wonder whether the army has been smoking pot...& to develop all these dreams,its gonna cost a HELL LOT OF MONEY...SHIT LOAD OF MONEY...& without buying more arjuns,where the hell are they gonna get so much MONEY????is there any particular time frams or is this gonna take another 30 years before this becomes 'obsolete' to indian army...

Anonymous said...

"The ‘Hyberbar’ engine will be able to accelerate from zero to full power at 1,500 hp in 2.8 seconds,"

LOL...are they planning to put the kaveri engine on FMBT?????

devindra sethi said...

Interesting reading,perhaps the DGMF/Army HQ need to have a chat with the Navy on 'Stealth Warships' and signature suppression,gas turbine prime movers,IFF,LLTV,IR supression etc etc as done for Project17 Frigates and beyond.The homework is all there and left behind in DSR by me when the NSQR's were written for these ships.Gas turbines in tanks are already a proven fact and implemented by the US army.Arjun Mk2 however has merit for if we look at the geography of our likely combat areas they will be hot deserts, cold deserts,coastal semi desert areas.The field trials have shown the Arjun to be a formidable machine in 'hot deserts'.This capability will be required upto the east bank of the INDUS.The DNA of the T-90 should make it a feared warrior in 'cold deserts'.Hence considering our WWR requirements sufficient numbers of both tanks are necessary upto 2030+.The T72's will meet coastal/semi desert needs.FMBT should envisage the combat profile necessary beyond 2030+.Our geography will not CHANGE.

Anonymous said...

Hahahahahahahahahahuahauhuahuahahahahuahauahahahahahahahh......hhh!!!

oohhhh man joke of the century.

They forgot Arch reactor from the Iron Man mvoie.

Anonymous said...

the drdo will get an opportunity to give employment to hundreds of scientists who will raise from Sc B to Sc H but will never live to see the tank emerge from their design boards. God bless the DODOs

Anonymous said...

Get the point, why IA needs such a spaceship like tank.......

"While the DRDO is developing those technologies, and get behind schedule, the IA will be forced to buy the next generation of tank from Russia, of which it may again be the launch customer, teething troubles and all. By the time DRDO's FMBT beats the T-XX, IA will be ready with FFMBT specs."

Anonymous said...

IA wants to keep everyone's mind from Tincan scam.

I want to ask an open question to responsible generals, "Desi Arjun may be the worst tank in the world that Indian soldiers cannot even touch but how they went for Tincan-90S which is wose than Arjun!!!"

I had no problem if they bought Leopard2A6, Merkava4, M1A2 or Lecrec!

Anonymous said...

For all the people showering praise at DRDO and criticizing the army, I know one thing that, neither have they seen any DRDO facility nor the army's. I request you to stop denigrating the army for god forsaken DRDO. To open your eyes, just visit any DRDO lab, if somebody lets you in.

Anonymous said...

What GUN are they going to fit on it, What use is a tank with out a GUN????

Anonymous said...

The wish list is such that DRDO will never be able to complete in the next 50-60 years and arms agent could continue in business. Some well has managed it quite well. SWEET.

Joel said...

I think MkII will have a warp core, metaphasic shielding, teleportation (so that the tank can be manned 24/7 as the army men are beamed on and off), plasma infuser, subspace cache (to store ammunition), photon torpedoes, inverted tetryon beams etc. For crew comfort, they would also need a holodeck, a swimming pool, pool table, gambling hall. Cant wait to see this model come out!

Anonymous said...

This kind of futuristic goal setting will help us avoid what went wrong with the Arjun in the 1st place. When you don't have a technology, it doesn't matter whether you are trying to develop today's stuff or futuristic stuff. LCA compare it with the Marut. Looking ahead gave us an airframe that is contemporary and unmatched in performance for its mass and the immense number of technologies we have mastered. Compare that with the Arjun where we have only learned yesterday's technology. Remember we are making a tank to fight tomorrow'sbattles not yesterday's. There is no tank development project of this scale going on currently.

Anonymous said...

gr8..lets produce a 10000000 page dossier on what the tank shud have..and then induct crap...gr8....

Anonymous said...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

NJS said...

DRDO should have JV with other trusted leading players to finish it within deadline , other wise it may take atleast 15 yrs to fulfill .

RainBow said...

Ah yes IA forgot to add the following most critical features of FMBT:

1. Should have jet engines powerfull enough to fly at HYPERSONIC speeds

2. Should carry self launchable satellite killer to disrupt the enemy recce sats (in other words a potent moving, untraceable Anti Sats weapon)

3. Should also have complete invisibility cloak (ala Hari Putter)

4. Should weigh only 500 grams (yes grams).

5. Should be able to fire:
Agni I, II, III; Prithivi; Brahmos etc.

6. Should contain a 100sqmts swimming pool with a snack bar.

7. Should have deep sea diving capabilities (to hunt the submarines) with ultra modern Sonar.

And above all it should be ready before the IA staff has another Johny walker and Jane inspired dream.

Prasanna said...

This is one of the craziest requirements in the history of mankind...

sentinel said...

Shiv....plz stop posting all this BS.Anti Arjun from the the word go.Stealth...eh!

These assholes at AHQ are such dimwits that they have lost track of reality.

A sincere request....please kick the donkey brain...who gave you this piece of shit.

Also stop flying in gripen country and apply some logic before printing this piece of smelly shit.

Anonymous said...

technically speaking, these things might sound really heavy, but as someone pointed out, many of them are already in active service or under development. its rather a question whether drdo will be able to deliver in the stipulated time frame within a reasonble budget.

Anonymous said...

THATS IT THEY DO NOT WANT A METAL CUTTING HI PRESESSION LONG RANGE LASER OR PHOTON BOMB UTTER RUBBISH THE AMERICANS TRIED SOME THING LIKE THIS ENDED UP GIVING UP THE THEORY OF TANK BATTLE THE NEW THEORY OF AMERICA IS NO TANK FITS THE NEW WAR SENARIO TANKS WILL BE OBSELETE AND IT WILL BE DISTORYED BY MANPADS HELLICOPERS AND WHANT NOT MY HUMBLE REQUEST FOR THE ARMY ASK FOR THINGS THAT CAN BE DEVELOPED OR JOINTED VENTURED NOT IMPORTING THE WHOLE TANK WELL WELL WELL I GOT IT GET INTO A JV WITH SOME FORIGEN COUNTRY FILL UP OUR SACK LEAVE FOR SWIZERLAND NICE ONE

Anonymous said...

Oh boy..they want Metal Gear..

Manish Mishra said...

Poor DRDO...

spurgeon judah said...

best of luck drdo.. time to go for slumber for another 15 years at least

Nk said...

Does the jokers know what a project and how are they going to achieve each sub-component or components mentioned in wish list. What is the time frame for each component or the whole system. Who are the experts or those who have an ability to develop these product time frame.
Material type/cost of material.
Weight of each component.
Total weigh of the Tank.

The biggest constraint is the ability to produce each component to a requisite quality by different private or public player and integrate all to achieve a desired output.

Also have the jokers R&D (I doubt Army has any dedicated R&D section) done a realistic feasibility study of each component or sub-component.

Anonymous said...

Sorry guys for interfering in between.
But there is nothing in the wishlist that needs another decade development.Almost all these technologies expected to be on a FMBT aready exist and some are under development.
For example,GTRE is in the process of completing the development of a turbine for battle tanks and APC.
We had a ground breaking technology for high capacity batteries currently under testing by navy.They are very light and compact while providing 5X power output of the ones under usage now.New torpedoes were already in design stage using these batteries which are hihgly compact and can be implemented on any vehicle(be it a tank,submarine,torpedo or what not? )
What is known is that we are already working on active defence systems for tanks and APC.These will also be adopted to future unmanned ground vehicles which are under testing.

a high energy laser was under developement for years now.but not sure about the armys intention of having it onboard a battle tank.

Moreover this electronic suspension has already been realised a way back.And these fancy FCS,BMS,blah blah were already developed and will get some extra fancy upgrades soon..
New guided projectiles(laser and GPS)for 155mm howitzers and 125mm tanks were under development.

But the army went into the same class when calling the weight requirements of the tank.It called for a 50-55 T tank with extra protection to crew,means it will sport both composite and ERA armor.Indigenous autoloader is nearing development and will be tested on Arjun soon.
I personally dont see anything ubber fantasy or fictional here.This is more or less expected on a FMBT which needs to be inducted from 2020 onwards.

Anonymous said...

No accountability, just ask for everything in the world! What a bunch of jokers! The IA deserves to be ridiculed for this c&%#.

Anonymous said...

All the Officers of the Indian Armed Forces are cheap bribe taking asshole scumbags & DRDO scientists are the most uneducated jackasses calling themselves scientists , I bet they cant even fix a cycle .

coldfire2005 said...

guys wait for Al-khalid-II to appear in Pakistani army then the real goose chase begins, Army has usual we want better tank T-90 is not capable of taking new almighty Al-khalid-II ,Arjun and Arjun mkII are crap lets buy T-95 from Mother Russia

Anonymous said...

just the one thing that is missing is perhaps that it should fly.... haaa haaaa

P.K.Chaudhuri said...

The nation that is INDIA must take note that the officers of its defense forces have become corrupt. They do not want the desired self reliance in defense hardwares, so that they can keep on buying arms from foreign countries. This is to ensure, if not bribe, at least a few forign trips. The newspapers earlier reported that the children of defense officers are driving BMWs. The officer who was posted to Russia for effectively negotiate the price of a more than twenty years old Air Craft Carrier, allows abnoral increase in its price just for wine and women. Is the system working?
The change of our nation from socialism to capitalism and introduction of liberalisation of the economy calls for for strict punishment system for deterrence of corruption and crime.
Also, there is a requirement of frequent change in political leadership for effectiveness of democracy.
Thanks.
P.K.Chaudhuri.

Anonymous said...

I just would like to say to the people who have come up with the requirements is that ARJUN M2 will be far better than anything the west or the east have also it will be the main attack tank of the armoured division and T90 or T90 V2 will be a complementary tank to it i have faith in few good people even if there are adversities they will deleliver the M2

Marcus said...

Lets assume for a moment that a tank with these capabilites can be put together by DODO, by whatever means. What will be the cost of this Tank? How many would the IA be able to afford? If the numbers are small would it be able to make impact an the battlefield?

The comments regarding al-khalid II are interesting....when is that scheduled to come out? I thought al-khalikd I was coming out next?

Abhiman said...

On a serious note, the Army's wish-list shows the absolute disconnect between the armed forces and the military industrial complex in the country.

The army has rattled off a wishlist like a truant child, who wants the funkiest toys, but it seems to have little idea of the efforts it is going to take. They always hide behind the excuse, "Look, our job is to defend borders, and to do that we need this equipment..."

So, either the army is looking for yet another foreign buy as usual (which is why it may purposely have asked for such exquisite requirements, that it probably knows DRDO will find hard to fulfill), or it just has no idea of the efforts needed to bring its wish-list to reality. Either way, the total aloofness and disconnect between the Army and the military industrial complex (read : DRDO) is in full view.

When Pakistani tanks are no better than dated T-90s, and with no Abrams in sight for them (yet), are these requirements really worth it ? Even if they get Abrams, our Arjuns can definitely take care of them for the forseeble future. I just hope that we don't witness yet another MRCA-like tamasha on this FMBT front.

On another note : The Arjun Mk.2 has been cleared for development. So, is that going to be the FMBT ? We may surely hope so.

Bijeet Mukherjee said...

Can't someone ask the parliament the question on the accountability of the Army to the people of the country and why despite being superior in all aspects larger tranches of Arjun are not being procured instead of the T(incan)90s.
Can someone file an RTI for the specific reasons behind the Army's flawed decision?

Anonymous said...

well,let's hope that we get our pay and perks first.................................then we can think of tanks or planes or ships or whatever else.................

Maratha Mind said...

Article Continued:

Modern tank warfare will not include Human operators of tanks but Robots operating the tanks with the robots being controlled by a data accumalting and netwroking defence computer. Due to this reason, Arjun MKK2 should have remore operatability and a fully functional robot. Honda is willing to provide the robot.
This will release the Army from fielding actual tank operators.

The Modern Tank should also be able to fly for 20 kms or so on tne already existing turbione engine in case the Army personnel inside is developing goose bumps after seeing enemy tank formation, he can run from the theatre of war....

Ha Ha..

THe conclusion: Army does not have any educated professionals working for it. Or they lose their professionalism after some Dance party on weekends.

The above, himalayan tank can still be done if DRDO allows modular design and assigns each module to a public-private team . Still possoible but it will definitely take time

Anonymous said...

All these guys commenting here wouldn't know what their plumber needs to remove the clogs in the drainpipes in their homes but think they know exactly what the Army needs.

Anonymous said...

This list of requirements is a joke. Even foreign vendors will look at it and laugh privately at the stupidity of Indian Army. You have to wonder that the person who compiled this list even understands some of the items being requested, or these are just catchphrases being dropped to 'impress' the DDM.

Indian Army has become just like Pakistani Army, corrupt and retarded. I feel sorry for our poor Jawans who have to suffer unmentionable conditions to serve under such dumb officers.

Why did the Army forget to mention other 'requirements' for FMBT like hovering, teleportation, warp drive and a lifetime supply of crisp Rs 1000 currency notes....

Anonymous said...

"The ‘Hyberbar’ engine will be able to accelerate from zero to full power at 1,500 hp in 2.8 seconds,"

This is a retarded requirement. Even with full 1500 bhp from a diesel engine, the reason it takes multiple seconds for tank to accelerate is that revs build slowly. This is because the tank is by nature a f***** heavy beast. Turbines are not instantaneous either, they have a spool up time, Any improvement in acceleration will need heavier drive train components, so it becomes a vicious circle where you throw more power and get no improvements.

I won't even mention the fact that turbines suck enormous amount of air, and need giant filters which need frequent replacement. With Indian Army's "renowned" logistics, a tank will be useless after 2 hours in battle. I will also not mention that the turbines are fuel hogs, so the tank will probably run dry before the filters clog, anyway.

Nice sitting targets, the soldiers better start doing the surrender drills and hope they are not used for medical experiments as happened to Shri Kalia in Kargil.

The fact that the Army wants 'IR' supression with a turbine engines leaves me speechless.

This list cannot be composed by officers who are concerned about security of our nation. This is work of worst kind of traitors. Shame, even Army is now corrupt like babus and netas, there is now no hope for this nation.

Anonymous said...

Hi Shiv, Can we use this article on defence forums, so that it can be discussed, dissected and debated ? I dont want to violate copyrights.

Gautm said...

First of all, I very much doubt that wishlist is real. Either it was made up as a joke by Mr. Shiv Aroor or someone in the defence establishment fed it to him for laughs. Although many of the technologies mentioned exist in Western tanks today, it is totally unreal for the Indian army to be expecting to jump from what they have now to that.

Secondly, while I have some sympathy for the people of DRDO, I doubt that they are blameless in the failure of the Indian defence industry to become self sufficient. Countries with even smaller defence industries and budgets than ours(South Africa, Ukraine, S.Korea...) roll out more and better products on a regular basis. I have read and heard much to indicate deficiencies in DRDO/DPSU work culture. As government employees they have few perks and at the same time do not ever have to worry about getting fired. This means they are free to work at their own pace and have no consequences for missing deadlines and nothing to motivate them aside from pride. Note that a large percentage of them quit for the private sector every year; it seems that they are only employed at DRDO to pay the bills till they can get a high-paying job.

You see where I'm going? Privatise the defence sector. Let a reputed company like L & T, Mahindra or Ashok Leyland develop the FMBT. Form a joint venture with a Western firm for TOT to leapfrog ahead in technology instead of trying to develop all these current gen technologies from scratch. The we'll get FMBT as soon as 2015.

MBT said...

If this ever ready for service it will be allready obsolate.

Anonymous said...

MoD should ask in writing whether the army is serious. If they get an answer that they are, then army should be told that a tank can only be imported if it meets all the requirements. Period. Enough natak baji has gone on for enough time. Time to call the bluff. ASRs for domestic equipment, TINA (there is no alternative) and waivers for imports.

Looks like matter has to be taken up with the Supreme Court, because the GoI is unable to call the bluff and DRDO cannot communicate what is achievable and what is not.

Anonymous said...

Lets face it, the IA will set an unattainable bar, the DRDO will fail to jump it, the IA brass will buy a foreign product that will fall well short of requirements, and a quiet deposit will be made in Switzerland. Others will continue to look down in disgust upon Indians untill Indians begin to respect each other and demand that the corruption that no doubt exists in the military procurement process stops. The commonwealth game corruption pales in comparison!!

Anonymous said...

DRDO is a spineless entity i feel. Since begining they have not succeeded in any major technologies. All they do is small engineering stuff akin to call centers in IT industry! Wake up DRDO!!!

prodyut said...

The problem is twofold:
The Army does suffer from "brochuritis" because doctrinaire studies ,if at all done,are done by "high ups" who have long lost contact.We are not going to invade Pakistan.We need mobile pillboxes like the super Centurion-e.g. the Arjun. But the people on thefront have little say in doctrine development because they lack "PSC" qualifications.
The second problem is that DRDO is only interested in "big" projects.Think of the POWER it gives the otherwise meek and mild bureaucrat. He becomes an expert and employs a huge court of "hanger on"s. i.e. it is an MNREGA. The politicians all of 'em are too scam ridden to set the tone.So what is the probability?The Army helps the DRDO who helps themselves and God helps the Hind!

sntata said...

If all the items on the Army's wish list are to be incorporated, the tank will weigh 75 tons!

Subhash said...

I don't know why everyone is o critical of the army's plans for their future tank. India's potential enemies (pakistan, china) pretty much have the same tanks as India presently (spec wise) and so the Army has responded accordingly to maintain an edge over their counterparts. And what they have requested is not so "star wars" style as some of you guys have termed, most modern tanks in the world today have tanks with the capabilities listed. The only problem which india has is a shortage of skilled persons to make such machines. HAL and DRDO are taking on numerous projects simultaneously, and with increased funding, there also neeeds to be an influx of skilled graduates frm universities - so saying things like "no wonder it took DRDO 30 years to make the Arjun tank" is unacceptable as the army expects such high tech inventory in their units, and it is their right to do so, it is us as a country who is letting them down with the media sensationalising many acquisitions by the Army (althrough it is true that there have been numerous scandals).

So friends, I request you all to respect the army's decision, afterall, they are trying to do their job.

Anonymous said...

good thing that the army did not make a requirement for the FMBT to fly as well !

sntata said...

To Chandan
Extremely funny! I am anxiously waiting for your next post!

Anonymous said...

The next IA list will be something like this:
1. Invisible Tanks: The tanks should be completely invisible..
2.Force Field shield: so that any incoming missle would jst explode in air..
3.200mm gun: with nuclear missle launching capablities..
4.F1 race car engine:0-100 in 2.4 secs..
5.Advanced navigation system: so they can easily navigate in heavy traffic nd sleak streetas :P
6.weight under 50 tons:after all this..

And even if DRDO gets them such tank they will buy 5 peices nd order 1000s of T-110(imported repainted and redesigned tinbox from those russians)..

Neel said...

+1 true enough..