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20 Comments

  1. 1

    sniperz11

    Who said rehearsals weren’t conducted?? There was a full rehearsal on the 19th.

    Another thing, this was not something that was decided on a whim, but had been planned, which was probably why the media campaign succeeded, and so many military attaches from other countries were able to see it. I seriously doubt the story about the troops being pulled from Dakshin Shakti.

    Shiv, I think u should look at getting another source to verify each piece of info that Army HQ, Maj. Generals and the Brigadiers feed u… judging by the amount of politics that goes on there, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they were just trying to run a smear campaign with u as the unwitting (i hope) conduit.

    Reply
  2. 2

    Kanan Saurabh

    Shiv,
    Irrespective of what sniper says, I feel this blog is a public service. We need such oversight mechanisms for the defence forces. Your blog is definitely a step in that direction.
    Congrats!!!!

    Reply
  3. 3

    Ice Cool

    Shiv,even i feel the same as kanan does but we must give serious thoght to what sniper has pointed out.. what if the deaths were truly just an accident and its being blown out of proportions to smear somebody or something’s reputation.. and we acting as the tool…

    Reply
  4. 4

    Mihir

    Shiv, there is no way the COAS could have foreseen the tragic deaths of the two jawans when he ordered Branzen Chariots. To suggest that the soldiers would have lived were it not for the chief’s supposed stupidity is unfair, to say the least. We can hold him responsible for disrupting a major exercise to put on a show (if that is what really happened, but not for the deaths.

    Reply
  5. 5

    Anonymous

    sniperz11 is correct. The Brazen chariots did indeed have rehearsals so not sure where you are getting the information from Shiv.
    But the point is what went wrong and how can it be corrected. Thats the crux of the issue. Was it faulty rounds, was it that after 20 firings the rounds got cooked, etc? Find that out and take corrective measures.

    Reply
  6. 6

    Shiv Aroor

    mihir: nowhere have i insinuated that the army chief is responsible for their deaths, nor that he could have foreseen their death in any way. i’m simply calling attention to the needlessness of it all. i might add, the buck stops with the chief if it was his call to disrupt the southern exercise for a cosmetic show of force in pokhran. and his decision to supress the news makes it that much more suspect.

    Reply
  7. 7

    Mihir

    Shiv, you came across as implying that the chief was responsible. Apologies for any misunderstanding…

    ALso, you mention that the Army “just took the assets of the ongoing Dakshin Shakti, thus harming a major army exercise”. Does this mean that Brazen Chariots was a last minute exercise?

    Reply
  8. 8

    Shiv Aroor

    mihir: no, BC wasn’t a last minute exercise, but it was conducted after forcing the SAC to release assets from Dakshin Shakti. This was done after coercing the Southern Commander until the very last minute. I don’t have documentary evidence of this just yet, but when I do, i’ll put it up here.

    Reply
  9. 9

    Arrorsucks

    Yet another piece of $hit from Mr.Suvar, the jerk from Headlines Today.

    Arror you are an specimen of what inbreeding can do.

    Go suck the cock of your ‘source’ staying in one of the foreign embassy of delhi.

    Reply
  10. 10

    Anonymous

    I won’t tell that we have a great army, but at least I believe that the system is better when considered to the Chineese where this blog wouldn’t have survived much…

    Reporters are keen to find out the problems but themselves are unable to find the solution.

    Someday these journalists should be made India’s PM, Army Chief etc. and see how they perform..

    Very bad no one is there to analyze the performance of journalist and reporters. Even these guys should be either elected by people or there reports should be scrutinized by the CJI itself

    Reply
  11. 11

    Anonymous

    Today Shiv Arror dd not get to drink his mother’s milk.

    That’s why this baby is acting cranky.

    Reply
  12. 12

    Anonymous

    As per google search on “Ex Brazen Chariots” one gets to find that PIB Release of 04 feb 2008 gave out the details of the scheduled dates and scope of the exercise.Times of India of 22Jan 2008 also gave out these details.One can clearly infer that participation of troops ex Southern Command and IAF and scope of the exercise and the same being witnessed by representatives from foreign armies was also made public as early as jan 2008, if not earlier! The COAS does not have to ask for transfer of assets to showcase “Brazen Chariot”.Logically it can be concluded that Dakshin Shakti’s culmination dovetailed into Brazen Chariot with due planning.
    As also it would not be correct on anyone’s part to conclude as to what caused the range accident without geting to know the circumstances (material defect of ammunition/hot barrell/ human error).
    Let us leave it at that and not mess around exhibiting our ignorance of how organising a major National event involving a major organisation takes shape and how events/incidents are to be handled.
    A oft quoted Chinese proverb says “If one who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool, Shun him.One who knows not and knows that he knows not is ignorant,Teach him.One who knows and knows that he knows is wise, Follow him.”

    Reply
  13. 13

    Anonymous

    Having ridiculous cause and effect does not help anyone. Insinuation is all it sounds like – An Exercise Brazen chariots led to the death of 3 soldiers is illogical connection.

    Please come up with more coherent views or at the least a write up which does not stand logic.

    Reply
  14. 14

    Anonymous

    I participated in both the ex- DS and BC. They were planned much earlier. Just setting the record straight. I will leave it at that.

    Regarding the firing incident,
    Such accidents do happen,inspite of all precautions taken.Please tell me has your computer never crashed or elevator failed. When dealing with live explosives lot of precaution is taken, but there is always a one in a hundred thousand problality that they may go wrong.

    Reply
  15. 15

    sniperz11

    This episode is turning into Torsion Bar Mk.2.

    We’ll obviously wait for the documents to arrive…. (can someone find out how long it takes for Modi Xerox?).

    Reply
  16. 16

    Shiv Aroor

    and sniperz tries his hands at irony, that old art! stick to what you know my friend. or are you still frothing over that “demented” comment? ignore. it’s very noble work you’re doing! 😛

    Reply
  17. 17

    sniperz11

    and when facing the fire, Shiv runs and hides… cmon shiv… The poster above has clearly posted evidence that BS was planned long ago. What answer do ur ‘sources’ have for that, my friend?

    As for the demented comment… I take sarcasm and humor for what its worth, and have a laugh while at it. P.S. Thank you for the encouragement and appreciation. when I’m low and feel down, its people like you who inspire me to continue doing what I do.

    Reply
  18. 18

    sniperz11

    To save u the trouble of googling, I’ve put the link to the ToI article of JAN 23 talking about BS. It clearly talks about the exact week of the exercise…

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India_to_showcase_its_military_might/articleshow/2722625.cms

    Can u rebut this?

    Reply
  19. 19

    Shiv Aroor

    gosh sniperz! you’re actually amazing. everyone got the Brazen briefing all those weeks ago. Everyone knew about it. The fact is that Lt Gen Thamburaj had to release assets under duress. There’s nothing to rebut. I didn’t say that the exercise happened at the last minute, but the logistics of it worked in such a way that assets moved at the last minute. Obviously it was planned ahead — but the people involved didn’t agree on how it was to be carried out, nor its purpose. For someone who carries a nickname like yours, you sure miss the point a lot, brother!

    Reply
  20. 20

    sniperz11

    Shiv, it doesn’t make sense that they planned everything months ago, but decided to leave the question of logistics for later.

    These are generals who need to plan operations down to the last detail, and in case of any war, will need to make the plans instantaneously. I find it unbelievable that they would take 3 months to come to a plan for a one day operation when they can make complete operational plans for corp size ops within a day.

    You may be right, but i highly doubt it. Like I said before, diversify your sources. One of them seems to be taking you for a ride.

    Reply

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