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25 Comments

  1. 1

    Anonymous

    any inforationn which submarine will be next

    amur,u214,merlin

    or any plan of indigenious diesel electric sub

    Reply
  2. 2

    Anonymous

    doesn’t prudence suggest we just built six more scorpènes? bad idea to buy amurs or class 214 u-boats. but let’s have a debate on this.

    Reply
  3. 3

    Aditya

    The DRDO producing a product that the armed forces like? No way! Unpossible! Cannot be! They are a failure! Bloated! Incompetent! blah blah blah blah….*

    *That was sarcasm, as those blithering idiots who shoot their mouths off are probably too thick to perceive it.

    Reply
  4. 4

    Anonymous

    doesn’t prudence suggest we just built six more scorpènes? bad idea to buy amurs or class 214 u-boats. but let’s have a debate on this.

    ———————————–
    if our scientists trying to produce why can’t the try for diesel sub first

    not a single try

    china is trying with it’s yuan copy of kilo and song class types

    we need more subs and our idiot GOVT. LEADERS closed the production line of TYPE 209 (GHOTALA)otherwise today we could be submarine producing country and now we have to pay billions to buy submarines

    Reply
  5. 5

    Prasun K Sengupta

    To All Anons & Aditya: The shortlisting for the six Batch 2 SSKs has been limited to ARMARIS of France's SMX-21, and the S-800, a stretched version of the Amur 1650 that has been co-designed by Russia's Rubin Central Design Bureau and Fincantieri. Am working on this story now and will be detailed in LIVEFIST soon with photos and cutaways. The S-800's marketing lead in India is being taken by Fincantieri, and not Rubin/Rosoboronexport. The Class 214 SSK is out as the Pakistan Navy is acquiring it to replace its Agosta 70B SSKs. Larsen & Toubro already has extensive industrial tie-ups with Italian OEMs for the ATV Project and it would be logical therefore that a strategic industrial tie-up of L & T and Fincantieri undertake construction of the six S-800 SSKs, which are each being proposed with an 8-cell BrahMos UVLM installation.

    Reply
  6. 6

    Anonymous

    good thing the scorpenes are not in contention. bloody frenchies nicely lined pranab mukherjee’s pocket. that’s the story that has done the rounds ever since the deal was signed. and anyway, scorpene has become too much of an inconvenient hot potato. and now another bunch of billions could keep going to paris for the smx-21. let that oaf sarkozy keep busy with his trophy wife. we should buy german u-boats. our shishumar-class boats have served exceptionally well.

    Reply
  7. 7

    Anonymous

    I believe we are only talking about littoral water when we talk of 100m depth. Hope DRDO improves on this success

    Iran has developed and indigenous diesel sub and here we are still aspiring to build an atv after so many decades. btw, why isnt ATV building experience enough?

    Reply
  8. 8

    Anonymous

    Iran has developed and indigenous diesel sub and here we are still aspiring to build an atv after so many decades. btw, why isnt ATV building experience enough?

    you call that a sub ? ughh !
    more like 2 bathtubs joined one over the other. and it is made with noko technology.

    Reply
  9. 9

    Anonymous

    I believe we are only talking about littoral water when we talk of 100m depth. Hope DRDO improves on this success

    that’s not possible. beyond 100m you need full scale deep submersible vehicles to survive the water pressure.

    Reply
  10. 10

    Prashanth

    This suit is straight out of GiJoe! (Cobra actually!)

    Reply
  11. 11

    Anonymous

    to Mr sengupta

    the S-800, a stretched version of the Amur 1650 that has been co-designed by Russia's Rubin Central Design Bureau and Fincantieri
    ———————————-
    can u clarify

    amur 1650 is a whole russian design and a 8 VLS cell brahmos coMPLEx or AIP SYSTEM can be added to amur 1650 as shown by web page of RUBIN
    design bureau and it can be called stretched amur1650
    ———————————–
    AND FOR UR COMMENT

    Larsen & Toubro already has extensive industrial tie-ups with Italian OEMs for the ATV Project and it would be logical therefore that a strategic industrial tie-up of L & T and Fincantieri undertake construction of the six S-800 SSKs, which are each being proposed with an 8-cell BrahMos UVLM installation.
    ———————————–
    ALSO CLARIFY THIS

    only russia,france,germany,sweden make diesel submarines

    ATV is based on akula hull designs supplied by russia

    AND ONLY RUSSIA HAS SUPERSONIC AND SOBSONIC MISSILES to offer

    spain buying TOMAHAWK from USA fucking up MTCR and these countries imposes MTCR on countries like INDIA.

    italy and spain DON'T PRODUCE THEIR SUBMARINES these 2 countries
    licensed producing submarines for themselves so how RFP from navy can be sent to Fincantieri of italy

    italy bought U 212 from germany
    fronce bought stretched version of SCORPENE from france called S80

    Reply
  12. 12

    Anonymous

    TO SHIV

    can u provide some inside pictures of upgraded KILO submarines of navy

    Reply
  13. 13

    Anonymous

    pics of russian subamrines

    http://news.webshots.com/album/558861808mBDyiV

    it also shows pumpjet being tested on
    KILO CLASS

    Reply
  14. 14

    Prasun K Sengupta

    To [email protected]: Kindly bear with me for another 48 hours and you will get the full story. Regarding the S-800 and S-1000 SSKs from Fincantieri, kindly visit the company's website where the SSK's design/performance characterirsics are detailed.
    Regarding the ATV Project, it is inconceivable that Russia has in any way helped through transfer of SSGN designs/structural components as this will be a direct violation of the NPT. Instead, when asked for its help on the ATV's PWR reactor, Russia did not supply any PWRs meant for submarines, but instead supplied design data originally meant for the PWRs on-board commercial ice-breaker ships. As for Larsen & Toubro has had industrial tie-ups with Italian naval shipbuilders and naval systems manufacturers since the late 1980s and has to date supplied a KOSMOS-type mini-submarine prototype for the DRDO, which is now undergoing sea trials. This type of mini-submarine is primarily meant for special operations. In fact, a scale-model of this mini-submarine and L & T's extensive industrial tie-ups with Italian companies like RIVA CALZONI were highlighted during DEFEXPO'08.

    Reply
  15. 15

    Anonymous

    to sengupta

    HOW CAN U SAY THIS THAT RUSSIA ISN’T HELPING US IN MAKING ATV

    if russia can give us with their latest akula2 submarine AND build nuclear reactors in india and supply fuel violating NPT

    then there is no problem in supplying huLls of akula BECAUSE supplying of hulls doesn’t come under NPT but supplying reactor comes UNDER NPT

    russia is supplying steel for building atv

    AND ITALY NEVER HAD AND NEVER MADE NUKE SUB ABD HAS NO EXPERIENCE IN MAKING NUKE SUBS

    WHILE RUSSIA HAS MADE 200 OF THEM DURING COLD WAR AND THEY HAVE MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE IN MAKING NUKE SUBS

    Reply
  16. 16

    Anonymous

    TO SENGUPTA

    S 1000 LOOKS same as of amur1650 but the torpedo room is below the sonar

    but russia already has lada class in commission our navy can also check how this sub performs on the other hand s1000 still not in commision

    but PRICE WILL BE THE BIGGEST PLAYER

    Reply
  17. 17

    Atty

    The submarine escape set looks like a great aid for the submariners.I see there a potential application even for deep diving operations,especially the saturation dives – where a diver may be required to be brought up in emergency.Any information on that?

    Reply
  18. 18

    Prasun K Sengupta

    To: [email protected]: It is not me that's saying that Russia isn't helping India make the ATV, but both the govts of Russia and India officially stating this. And Russia is not giving India the Akula-2 SSGN. It is dry-leasing the SSGN and eventually India will return this SSGN after the lease period is over. Russia is NOT supplying steel for the ATV. It is Jindal Steel and SAIL that are the steel suppliers. I never said anything about any Italian company making nuclear-powered submarines. All I said was that Italian components/sub-systems suppliers are involved in tie-ups with L & T for the ATV project. Items like non-hull penetrating masts, combat management systems, transmission shafts, propellers, integrated platform management systems and ship automation systems are what we call common-user items that can be used on both conventional SSKs and nuclear-powered SSBNs, as well on board principal surface combatants.

    Regarding the Amur 1650/Lada SSK versus the S-1000/S-800, it was Rubin/Rosoboronexport's decision to allow Fincantieri to take the marketing lead in India. In fact, that's the reason two years ago the Indian Navy's HQ shut down the Amur Project Evaluation Team, which was set up in 2001. Therefore, it is no longer an issue of the S-800 versus the Amur 1650/Lada. The Russians in consultation with the Italians have unanimously decided to offer the S-800 against the ARMARIS-designed SMX-21. But in terms of capability and sophistication the SMX-21 appears to be far more revolutionary.

    Reply
  19. 19

    Anonymous

    to sengupta

    But in terms of capability and sophistication the SMX-21 appears to be far more revolutionary.
    ————————————–==
    how can this be ,kilo is successful
    design,RUSSIAN subs are no less capable and sophisticated

    french or western sonars and subsystems and AIP are available to be fitted on any submarine including russian subs

    there is no match for shkval torpedo,brahmos and klub missile equipped russian submarine,this capability is second to none,and western systems ,sonars can be fitted on russian subs.

    this will save huuuuuge amount of money since we already buiding french subs SO it is better to go for russian design .

    and kindly tell me can our last three scorpenes subs be replaced by SMX21 after renegotiatian.

    ALSO TELL ME MORE ABOUT SMX21 AND its price AND HOW IT DIFFERS WHITH
    SPANISH S80 SUBMARINES

    Reply
  20. 20

    Prasun K Sengupta

    To Anon @12.58AM:
    1) The Type 877EKM and Type 636 Kilo-class SSKs were built for usage in the 1980s and 1990s and have outlived their operational usefulness. If you really want to know how stark the differences are, just go inside a Kilo and a Class 209/Type 1500 SSK of the Indian Navy and you will reach the same conclusions as I have.
    2) Recently the Indonesian Navy did competitive evaluations between the Amur 1650 and Class 209/Type 1200 SSKs (the latter offered by South Korea) and in every performance category, the Amur 1650 lost out.
    3) If you require any information on the SMX-21, you will find it all in the website of ARMARIS and DCN International.
    4) Price is never an issue at all as high procurement costs can always be defrayed by direct/indirect offset packages.
    5) The last three Scorpenes will not be replaced by the SMX-21. But the Indian Navy has been offered the option by ARMARIS to equip each of the last three Scorpenes with 8-cell BrahMos UVLMs and the MESMA AIP module.
    6) The Spanish S-80 is the same as the Scorpene as far as the hull goes, but the combat management system is not from THALES, but from Lockheed Martin.
    7) India’s experience with retrofitting systems of non-Russia origin on board Russia-built platforms have been highly disastrous to date. Let me give you an example: the Navy in the early 1990s wanted a common integrated platform management system (IPMS) for both its first three Project 1135.6 Talwar-class frigates and the six Project 17 Shivalik-class frigates. So, Navy HQ told Canada-based L-3 MAPPS to negotiate directly with Rosoboronexport to come on board as a non-Russia vendor. When L-3 MAPPS did so, it found out that Rosoboronexport had hiked the price of this IPMS by 100% without any justification, while not revealing to the Indian Navy why it did so. The result was that the three Talwar-class frigates (and the follow-on three frigates now being built in Kaliningrad) have the Russian IPMS, while the six Talwar-class frigates have the IPMS supplied by L-3 MAPPS which, by the way, has an excellent office in Bangalore from where it has supplied locally-developed applications software packages for other IPMS modules supplied by L-3 MAPPS to the navies of Malaysia and South Korea.

    Reply
  21. 21

    Anonymous

    TO SENGUPTA

    PRICE IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE .IF IT IS NOT Y R U BLAMING Rosoboronexport had hiked the price of IPMS by 100% and su 30 price hike should be no more issue

    and how much will be the price hike from french if brahmos included so don’t blame roso for IPMS

    kilos havn’t yet COMPLETED their sevice time these will be in indian navy till 2030 and russia has well exported these subs till 2003 to china

    AND MIND U
    TYPE209 AND KILOS R OF SAME TIME

    amur 1650 is 2 decade newer design
    than type209 AND KILO

    no type 209 carry antiship missiles

    neither there was a competion for subs nor type 209 outclssed amur1650 .it was an exchange of aircraft to subs.

    since russia allowed our own indigeneous sonar and other systems to be installed there should be no problem for french sonars AND weapon system on amur sub is unmatched

    ITS A SHAME ON US THAT WE STILL NEED TO BUY SUBS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES .ISN’T THE TECH TRANSFER FOR SCORPENES ENOUGH TO MAKE OUR OWN DIESEL SUB

    Reply
  22. 22

    Anonymous

    I never said anything about any Italian company making nuclear-powered submarines. All I said was that Italian components/sub-systems suppliers are involved in tie-ups with L & T for the ATV project. Items like non-hull penetrating masts, combat management systems, transmission shafts, propellers, integrated platform management systems and ship automation systems are what we call common-user items that can be used on both conventional SSKs and nuclear-powered SSBNs, as well on board principal surface combatants.

    dude, what nonsense, as if you can buy off the shelf propellers and transmission shafts. go spend some time actually working in the business, you tailor shafts to dynamic loads and exact power-torque combos expected from the powerplant which are never shared for such sensitive powerplants and nor is propeller technology and fabrication available off the shelf.

    India’s experience with retrofitting systems of non-Russia origin on board Russia-built platforms have been highly disastrous to date.

    again this is all bakwaas, go to the navy design team and ask them about the umpteen stuff they have got and fitted into russkie platform. its all about willpower and funding, you make such a mountain out of molehills.

    Reply
  23. 23

    Anonymous

    to anon 3.28 am

    as if you can buy off the shelf propellers and transmission shafts. go spend some time actually working in the business, you tailor shafts to dynamic loads and exact power-torque combos expected from the powerplant which are never shared for such sensitive powerplants and nor is propeller technology and fabrication available off the shelf.

    ————————————————————
    u r right this tech is never shared

    Reply
  24. 24

    Anonymous

    to sengupta

    any info whether scorpenes will hav non hull penetrating masts

    Reply
  25. 25

    Anonymous

    to sengupta

    what is the difference between
    french new smx 23 submarine and their new merlin submarine

    Reply

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