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23 Comments

  1. 1

    Anonymous

    how many Mig 27 have been upgraded?

    Reply
  2. 2

    rajiv

    Eagerly Waiting for expert comments. Talking in terms of percentage how much is present beast better than old Mig 27. And
    Shivji kindly enlighten us by what year our military capabilities would be good enough to attack P and without resulting in to much civilian causality.

    Reply
  3. 3

    Ra

    An efficient and worthwhile effort till the arrival of AMCA, T-50 and FGFA.

    It is great that they could do it by themselves.

    Reply
  4. 4

    Anonymous

    Very informative and well written. Kudos to HAL/DARE for managing this project within time-lines.

    One question-Your statement about the Flogger being a potent 70's platform but a defunct 90's platform raises questions in my mind. The F-16 was a potent 70's platform and although not state-of-the-art (Block 60's are) platform anymore, they are still a very effective platform. Ditto for the F-15 (the K version the South Koreans have is comparable to the MKI's) and the F-18 ( although the F-18 debuted in the early 80's).

    Point I am trying to make-Is there a generic problem with Soviet aircraft capabilities vis-a-vis American that make them a excellent contemporary platform but not a one that withstands a generation?

    While this may sound outlandish, i feel this is true. Case in Point-the Mig-29. In the 80's it sent shivers down Western spines. Today, the Mig-29 (albeit Mig-35) is struggling for orders (Algeria returned their aircraft citing Quality issues) outside India & a couple of other countries. 29's have been shot down in combat by F-15's in Irag (I know Pilot skills would be pointed out)The F-18 and its successor Super Hornet are still selling and if media is to be believed, can outclass the Mig-29 today. Not sure if a SH will outclass a Mig-35 (once it is fielded). I would be very eager to see how the upgraded IAF 29's fare with the F-15/F-18 platforms in exercises.

    Worrying thought-what happens if the huge MKI fleet is redundant in say,2025. It will cost > $12 Billion to produce the IAF's 272 MKI's. Would be sad to see it lose to the F-18 SH/Eurofighter 15 years down the line (leave the F-22-the FGFA will counter that).

    Reply
  5. 5

    mathi man

    A good effort from HAL and others. May be HAL has been underrated for its success,. May be now people will stand up and take notice.

    But will any lesson be learnt from the mig27 maintenance issue. all russian fighters are high maintenance and should NOT be bought without the lifetime maintenance package. REad the teetihing issuse with mig-29 s the malaysian airforce is facing. Even then the IN went ahead and bought mig-29 ks. so, in the mmrca decision, this "maintenance' issue weighs in 50% .

    Reply
  6. 6

    rajiv

    Anon @9.09 Russian jet are much better than american in terms of maneuverability and design . Avionics and Radar are no doubt are one of the most important part of fighter but now days it has become all together a different branch. And require billions of dollar which Russian did not have in 80 and 90s. F 16 over the years have many times been upgraded but a serious Mig29 up grade since 83 would would be Mig 35. Without the AESA radar SH should not much problem for Mig 35. Its all about Money and your prioritizes and how high u are on vodka.

    Reply
  7. 7

    amit

    Just breed the tejas like rabbits . make it the indian mig – 21 ( in terms of quantity ) .a squardon or two maybe three for every air force base .just mass produce them like tanks !!!!!!!!! waiting to hear expert comments on this mass production theory .

    Reply
  8. 8

    Anonymous

    We need to have a very high production rate (40 to 50 Planes/year) facility at hal and produce Tejas in big numbers. And once 5th-gen is ready start "upgrading" Tejases in inventory into UCAVs. But the spoilt-brats and the delhi farm-house wallahs will just not allow any solution other than imports.

    Reply
  9. 9

    Anonymous

    Do we have enough pilots to man the number of a/cs that we are going to induct over the next few years? Mass production is a very good idea subjected to able and trustworthy a/c. If Tejas can prove that it can outmanoure Mirage, yes why not. The country like India can easily afford to deploy hundreads of these a/c if our delhi based politicians decide to.

    Reply
  10. 10

    Anonymous

    Shiv, Can you at some point in time please compare LCA Tejas abilities with respect to Mig 21/27S. Considering all these deficiences prior to upgrade I believe Tejas should easily take over the role that these aircrafts are expected to do. I guess its prime time for HAL to fire up all cylinders and get Tejas operationally certified by October.

    Even if we can prove that it is a better option compared to Mig 21with some proves, that itself is enough to cause shivers across the boders.

    Reply
  11. 11

    Anonymous

    A total of 40 Mig 27's have been upgraded upto 2009; operational in 2 Sqdns (no's 10 and 29).
    Another 60+ Mig 27's are operational in 3.5 Sqdns (18,22, 222 and TACDE) The Mig 27's in TACDE should be replaced by SU30MKI's by early next year.

    There were reports that another 40 Mig 27's were to be Upgraded from 2010 onwards…..but no confirmation.

    Reports on Engine problems still persist.

    Reply
  12. 12

    Abhid-d

    I think LCA Tejas can easily supplant MiG-27s.

    There is only so much make-up one can apply on an old woman. But she isn't going to look like a teen – maybe only 15 years younger.

    In the same way, the IAF must stop upgrading old and tottering jets with new avionics. They absolutely HAVE to be replaced with modern planes like Tejas and Su-30. Now, more than ever before.

    Its high time these cold war relics like MiG-27 and MiG-21 were retired.

    Reply
  13. 13

    Ra

    Tejas mk1 if equipped with BWR and/or standoff missile capabilities may be enough to send the chills down the spines of real enemies. It may be noted that Paki forums are facing a silence of death since the acceptance of LCA and Arjun by our forces.

    Being basically somewhat indigenous and cheap, LCA is prone to be built in larger numbers and even today the quantity matters with quality.

    So the quantity aspect shall be accomplished judiciously i.e. Tejas mk2 may be split in to Tejas mk2 and Tejas mk3 in such a manner that immediately after the completion of rapid production of 40 Tejas mk1s, the production of 40 Tejas mk2s can take place.

    The quantity aspect may have its own importance as considering the red dragon china and the two front theory, India should have at least 60 Squadrons.

    Reply
  14. 14

    AK

    This stands out as an excellent example of how our desi organizations when working in tandem can achieve great things. One important thing to note here is the IAFs involvement from the very beginning of the program. IAF and IA have a very boorish attitude towards Indian made systems and this has to change. Since the generals and the marshals are incapable of doing this, it comes on the shoulders of Shree Antony to ensure that we support such efforts. There is no substitute for indigenous capabilities.

    Reply
  15. 15

    Anonymous

    You said "IAF and IA have a very boorish attitude towards Indian made systems and this has to change".

    It is not the question of attitude. Let that be what it may. The question is output and quality of output. It is the question of what our adversaries have and what DRDO offers to soldiers to fight with?
    Recently there were talks of T-90 Vs Arjun Competition. Can we hold an Al Khalid Vs Arjun competition ? That will be held during a war which is the business of a soldier and not DRDO. Things at stakes are higher than existance of DRDO.

    One must repect the feelings and requirements of the user soldiers and provide them competetive (if not the best in the world) equiment rather burden him with third class gear to die. What ever is offered has a natinal cost both in terms of mnoey spent on DRDO and cost of loosing a war.

    User has the right to ask for what he wants. DRDO has no right to force things on the soldiers in the name of self sufficiency. Self sufficiency in "excellance" is what is being asked for and not self sufficiency in delays, disfunctinal equiment, time lines shifting by decades and risks on national defence.

    I would request these scientist gentemen to understand this. Soldier eagerly look forward to their achievement and success. However, when you are not able to make a Carbine his faith is badly shaken.

    Fault lies with you. Please do not claim monopoloy in supply of defence equipment. That would be wrong way to progress and that is not a "Term of Service" for DRDO.

    All the very best.

    Reply
  16. 16

    Anonymous

    its "Laser Ranger and Marked Target Seeker (LRMTS) !!!i goofed it up.

    Reply
  17. 17

    Anonymous

    @anon@1.38pm,
    The neighbour to the north has done everything with the local stuff. Where their products were not exceptional they procured greater numbers to compensate that. Look at their K-8 Karakorum and yet they put up with it before they matured to j-10s and j-11s. But today they stand on their feet. Nobody ever became big with rented guns. It is not about existence of an organization. You are either self-sufficient or a dependent vassal whose sword is sharp or blunt depending on remote control of supplier.

    Reply
  18. 18

    Blue

    waiting to hear from you on the drawbacks/weak points/criticism/anamolies from the Mig-27 upgrade

    Reply
  19. 19

    Anonymous

    It will b better if you give the full forms of acronyms… its so confusing…

    Reply
  20. 20

    NormanFor8

    This is a great innovation for India's defense system, and i hope they are using the latest fleet maintenance software that they can put on those aircrafts!

    Reply
  21. 23

    NiftyTips100

    Any number of modern jets will not change our politicians' minds. They dont want to fight with any country that threatens us. Pak has the muslim votebank factor and China is too clever to keep their claws hidden and bluff the Indians. This nation has never been an aggressor and never will be in future. Planes and Tanks are just show pieces !!!

    Reply

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