– IAF’s evolutionary wishlist for the AMCA
– The stealth in India’s AMCA
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JAGAN PILLARISETTI is an air war historian, author of two seminal books on India’s aerial conflicts in 1965 and 1971, […]
If we are investing so heavily in FGFA aka PAKFA, then what's the need for another stealth fighter??
We must go for one of them. India cannot afford development of two stealth fighters.
Pak fa is only for IAF…while AMCA will be for both air force n indian navy…it will also boost confidence in self reliance…n if sucessful will bring lot of business for india in world arms market
Looks like F-18 SH ???
Fly after 2025..
DODO's another pipe dream
Propose and get approved a projet like this .. and then sleep on it .. and do world tours till the retirement.
Good job keep it coming But on TIME! PLS!
now, some will start blaming the DRDO and politicians of corruption and wasting the money…but these brainy creatures who always blame others are only good at commenting on forums and nothing more…while those with dream and vision of achieving their goals work day and night …the incompetent and loser's waste time all day commenting on others….for all those who keep blaming scientists of DRDO for not doing work properly ,just give a try and take the SET exam for DRDO, and if u pass, then u have the balls to comment on DRDO scientists and if u fail…you are just a sore loser.. and if u are not even eligible to write the exam , then please show mercy on us and stop commenting, coz u cannot even begin to understand what a hell of job they are doing …..
" Anonymous said…
DODO's another pipe dream4:09 PM"DODO?..look whose commenting….just have look at the achievements of what u prefer to call DODO…even the chinese have started to take note of the achievements (AGNI V)…
only u paki's in land of pure are fond of hiding in pipe and caves….don't worry we'll turn this dream to reality and flush out you from pipe and caves….ohh well whom am i trying to enlighten….disillusioned one's from land of pure..
Uhhhh just getting tired of the same shitty blame comments. Anyways wanted to say that cant see any side weapon bays right below where the wings join the fuselage, ahead of the main carriage. Need some to carry short range aam's considering this is a medium class aircraft.
Thank God they have removed the crank on the LE!Prodyut
What miracles can u expect if India's military spending is a fraction of US and China.
How do we keep our brightest engineers? by paying them peanuts lol.
Replying to a comment above on the need for AMCA when we are expecting the PAK-FA….Broad classification of fighter aircraft is :Light, Medium and Heavy with different functions and different payloads.
While PAK-FA is a heavy fighter, AMCA is a medium weight machine (and LCA is the Light one). Depending on your war strategy, you will need different output from your fighter and having some of all 3 classes can help focus the correct fighter for the required function.
The FGFA and AMCA are of two different weight categories. India should speed up the development of AMCA and not be lethargic like the LCA project.
I don't think there are any "Pakis" commenting on this post. Btw, pls keep your comments objective and without any racial slurs.
DRDO's main purpose isn't about some smart guys taking an exam (SET or whatever ) and getting on to a government employment program where draw monthly salary for rhe rest of their life for doing nothing. That isn't why tax payers are paying for such programs. Your smartness is proven by what you build, not by what exam you pass. DRDO is not a school. Criticism is warranted where its deserved.
Can they do us all a favor and show us ONE frigging part on that plane that is ready? Radar, missile, engine anything???
" Anonymous said…about commenting"Hi dude, what ever you said is true these guys are wasting time on commenting…But the fact is that the work culture in our government research institutes is worst compared to any other private research organizations. I have seen the work culture as being one of them (not DRDO or defence) and i didn't able to work in that environment with them and I took off from the country and working abroad. It's obvious to strive for personal achievements for any human along with professional goals. We can see so many projects like Arjun, Kaveri, Tejas etc., which have been delayed by decades and at higher costs than estimated. This effected our armed forces in two ways. 1. By the time of final product was showed, the requirements of armed forces were changed substantially, 2. Armed forces spend billions of dollars to other countries to fulfill their requirement or using the old equipment (because of the politicians). And you know how many engineers and science graduates from premiere institutes like IIT's, NIT's and Universities are staying at home, very few and they are working in other countries for what ever the reason it might be (personal or professional). As you said if we want to comment on someone there will be two cases 1. for bad propaganda and 2. pain caused by the love for them.I don't think the people commenting here are the former case people. They want their country to be at top, but the pain caused by the DRDO makes them to comment like this.
it will fly at 2075 when whole world makes trip to moon daily
DRDO is going all out on their big plans. Aura Sealth UCAVs, Engines, Long range cruise missile, Missile defense, LCA, AMCA…..Its a make it or go bust thing. All or nothing!…..With DRDO its mostly "nothing".
DRDO is extremely good at paper work….
Hope they really start going ahead with the AMCA now. Rather if they have any mettle, they can do it within the five years of development of the FGFA inside a parallel curve.
-DRDO and other public military firms have been doing well. What they mostley need is PEOPLE TO SUPPORT THEM DURING BAD TIMES ALSO.
-Regarding scientist going abroad. That is Gov. fault. There should be an overdrive effort to find jobs,further develop scientists skills, accomodate scientists, and keep them working for the nation, etc.. Scientists are the backbone of a nation. There should be a big effort to keep your scientists working for you!
Hi shiv, the wing seem to be different than the wing tunnel model. its more raptorish than like the original model. Have they changed the design..
@ Harvind K Hindustani give DRDO a break,this is the first time they are doing something like tejas aircraft..and we all know that the aircraft cannot be built overnight…even it took more that two decades for Americans to turn the F22 from drawing to reality and during the course their armed forces also changed their demands and specifications over and over..the problem is,we don't have a well established infrastructure to support the development of big defense programs..and if you are talking about work culture then we are also part of it,we are not better than them…after all, given an opportunity we will do things the way they are doing..and many who put up comments here about corruption tend to forget that may be at some point even their parents might have taken or given bribe at some time and in the future,surely these incompetent fools will accept or give bribe and yet they have the guts to accuse someone of corruption….perhaps if u had read a recent article in 'voice of Russia' you would have known it better, a Russian military officer commended India for testing the AGNI V and added that India managed develop the ICBM faster than any country…I'm not a cheerleader for DRDO nor for the armed forces, bu i do understand the problems they are facing due to non availability of resources
Throwing comments on other is easy than doing job. Even a paper plane takes time for us if we start from scratch without prior knowledge. Once we have something we know where to go and how to go. This saves time and actual returns of our earlier investment. Since DRDO has sufficient knowledge about missiles so the made AGNI V at short notice. To achieve that level DRDO spent around 30 years.Private firms pay huge salary because their workforce is very less compared to government. To increase the salary of an engineer is not an easy job. For that they need to raise the scale of his salary. Once raised that applies to all other engineers belongs all other government institutions falls under that scale. That means few hundred thousands of people. DRDO dudes are working under harsh conditions in all respects and yet again they are achiving success. We many not even survive 10 days in those conditions. Hats-off to them and let us do our part to make our country better. So stop hate comments and start doing something.
ha ha ha funny toy for drdo for EARN MONEY from gov. drdo engginer do job like gov file department. 1 table to other table and take 35 year
It would be very interesting to know whether this is from some official presentation or is this an artist's impression. Any information is welcome.
Thank you.Indranil Roy
I see some people complaining about DRDO's perceived incompetence. I blame DRDO's PR department for this, more than anybody else. That said, I'd like to see one of these armchair generals to point out a SINGLE defense company (private or government), that produces missiles or tanks or fighters or any other advanced equipment, with the same or lesser funding than DRDO/HAL/ADA does for these projects. Please, challenge us with your facts.
copy paste from somwhere !!!still cannot see any tejas flying around !!!!!
better focus on tejas rather than 100 other things..
Congratulations to DRDO !
The AMCA's design seems to be very good.
I sort of agree with the first commentator, but in a different way — we must actually cancel the PAK-FA project, since we have the indigenous AMCA coming up so well.
PAK-FA is gone from our hands; except some tinkering here & there, HAL cannot do much more in the PAK-FA. Anyway, its made for the Russian Air Force's specifications only.
But the AMCA presents two important opportunities :
1) For the very first time in IAF's history, a fighter jet will be designed from ground-up from scratch, after taking IAF's inputs at every step.
This didn't even happen in case of the Tejas, when a careless IAF just tossed some advanced requirements to DRDO (and even changed them mid-way at a whim) — and expected DRDO to come up with an F-16, the size of a MiG-21.
2) The DRDO will continue its momentum of the Tejas program to the next generation AMCA. This will culminate in a lot of new technology development. Our aviation industry will reach much greater heights.
What is the source of this design? DRDO published it or featured it somewhere?
Secondly, this design seems to offer little room for missiles.
Third, the air intake seems curved almost at a right angle right at the beginning, doesn't look like a good path for air to flow. Of course this is just an amateur observation only.
No investment results in no product, so the only way to achieve this is by cancelling PAKFA and investing every penny into AMCA. This will give the developers the necessary resources while giving them the sense of responsibility in providing key security for the nation. IF we keep PAKFA, etc…. this will turn into another LCA, and probably will not be inducted until 2040, by then IAF would not want anything to do with it. Pick one or two projects and fully fund them, this is how you suceed. If we provide micro funds to several projects, we will have no money left when something of great potential is actually found and needs to be developed. Just my two cents.
What is the time line 2020-2040 even then also if Eads or Boeing helps we may see the fighter otherwise Hal will keep testing amca like tejas
The AMCA Project was started as RISK MITIGATION approach of the PAK_FA/FGFA project.
Incase PAK-FA does not materialize,there will be alternate option will be available to IAF as AMCA
No country in the world including rich country like USA has been able to field a Lighter Stealth and a Medium Stealth Platforms parallel …yet..it's very costly affair.
So let us wait and see..what approach Defence Ministry and IAF takes actually…I will expect that India might break away from PAK-FA/FGFA agreement (while saying huge cost escalation or something like that)after 2014 election and proceed to build AMCA using/buying old stealth technologies/design/engines sourced from USA.
Also the design shows AMCA clearly being designed for ONLY Air-Combat/Interceptor role ..not for a First Strike Wave Role/Concept to cripple the enemy's C4I and AD infrastructures,to gain a absolute control over enemy Air-Space.
Can MOD,IAF just afford to spend huge sums on making only defensive stealth Air-Platforms ???
Expected date of IOC 2147 (Without Kaveri)
Looks like lt is carrying AAMRAMs ; )
i will ask all the experts to keep their expectation high from AMCA or keep the deadline high for the project completion IOC by 2030 FOC by 2050 even if we by tejas's timeline and the req. specified by IAF these timeline would be infinity
Hum kush hue.agle 15saal tak hum aise hi pix dhekh kar kush hote rhange ….?
AMCA shall be allowed to proceed after the FGFA/PakFa, even if they are costlier. Future belongs to the stealth whether manned or unmanned.
Haa haa haa haa ….2030. haa haa haa…..2040.haa haa….2070.h……me to chala.Bye Bye Amca
Always good at making impressive cutaway but zero in delivering the real thing…….
Hi Shiv,No doubt, it is a very good effort by the DRDO to even visualize something so advanced as the AMCA. I would not go so far as to congratulate them based on the wish list of the IAF and the day dreams of the DRDO guys. One might accuse me of being unpatriotic and negative but so far DRDO has not been able to deliver its super-duper products (LCA Mk1) after more than 2 decades.
LCA Mk1 is yet to get FOC and would be some time before the IAF agrees to induct it. LCA Mk2 is at least 5 years away to join the IAF.
The worse part is DRDO has not been able to come up with a basic trainer for the IAF. Basic trainers which are the backbone of the training programme of rookie pilots are being imported from Switzerland. Intermediate advanced trainers are also imported, eg. the Hawks. There will always be a need for the above category of trainers for the IAF. Why is the MOD, IAF, DRDO and HAL not investing in those to be able to provide those trainers to the IAF.
Another very irritating aspect of DRDO is their penchant to trumpet about products that are still at the design stage.
Countries like China only unveil their products such as the J20 stealth fighter-bomber once it is at least in the prototype stage.The Chinese prefer to keep all their secret projects close to their heart whereas we declare to the whole world what a pathetic lot we are when we have not produced a credible aero-engine.
The writeup about the AMCA just provides the 'feel good factor'. It shows we are good dreamers. It does not and will not add to the potency of the IAF for at least another decade. So why the unholy hurry to impress the world.
Nobody is going to shiver in his pants reading about the AMCA. DRDO should learn to shut up and only open up when it has a top of the line product ready for the Armed Forces.
Lets discuss the design of AMCA instead of writing pointless comments about DRDO. For me DRDO has delivered massively by making Agni-V. Just look at the change in China's tone now. Can anybody guess what would have happened if Agni-V had failed? How many superpowers get their ICBM design correct at first attempt? “Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain”Henry Ford
Where did you get this drawing/figure from? Is it an official release or an artist impression?
Please mention the source of the document. We expect that much from you and your blog.
Anon@8.16PM: I am under no obligation to reveal my source. The fact that I have not revealed the image source should tell you that it is from an official DRDO document. If it wasn't, that would be mentioned.
HAL should be shut down or be sold off to the TATAs. I can't imagine a company that has been in existence for over 6 decades and can't produce a single marketable ingenious product. Shame on HAL and shame on all the so called IIT/IISc aerospace shit engineers. India has failed in every engine technology Kaveri Engine (fail), Cryogenic Engine (fail), Arihant engine (fail), Arjun Tank Engine (fail, had to be imported from Germany) Indian railways had to beg US company EMD for electric and diesel engines, all the cars and trucks engines in India are licensed manufactured on ISUZU or CUMMINS technology. Shame on Indian FAKE engineers. Indian engineers are nothing more than Ambassador Car mechanics. HAL's only worth is in producing Bullock Carts and three wheeler rickshaw pedicab.
>>> The fact that I have not revealed the image source should tell you that it is from an official DRDO document.
Then if it is DRDOs then why are you putting up a SHAMELESS LIVEFIST watermark on it?
You didnt create it, but you are claiming it as your own.
Shiv, grow up and learn some ethics.
Yo, dimwit at 5.51PM: First, read the 'READ THIS!' tab on top of the blog to understand watermarking norms on Livefist. It's only so that thieves like yourself don't filch them and post them elsewhere and pass them off as something you've accessed yourself. Clear?
^^Well said, Aroorji
There is lot of similarity with the F22 in this design. If this design suits our requirements the best, then we should proceed without worrying too much about the reaction of the rest of the world.
ani78i see you in 2070. Till then shut up. If you cant wait request IAF to drop you off from the Dhruv at 20,000 ft up in the air. If you dont like heights, lie down under the arjun tracks. If you want other solutions, we can help.
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