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25 Comments

  1. 1

    Wjr

    Interesting article about and aircraft that is simply a target and not much more. Poor engines, poor electronics and poor situational awareness does not make a combat aircraft.

    Reply
  2. 2

    harish

    why it took 17 years just to fire bvr missile that too with foreign radar from tejas.

    Reply
  3. 3

    Anonymous

    Although the article describes attempts to export the JF-17 as so far unsuccessful, it’s sale to two countries is more or less confirmed.
    Myanmar: http://www.janes.com/article/71422/images-show-myanmar-air-force-jf-17-fc-1-conducting-flight-tests-in-china
    Nigeria: http://quwa.org/2017/01/04/official-2016-nigerian-budget-confirms-jf-17-order/

    Reply
  4. 4

    Someone

    Nicely written

    Reply
  5. 5

    Venkat

    Great article. “Affordability ” and “local expertise development” are key to being a great military power. Indian Airforce however seems to have none of these and today if someone has to be blamed for shortage of squadrons it is themselves. They seem to have learnt nothing : still talk of great things for AMCA, am sure it will never come out .
    . I hope the government forces these guys to be realistic for ongoing manned and unmanned next generation aircraft.
    These guys make our prime minister look like an idiot when he goes to negotiate something (now affordable single engine fighter). Poor guy.

    Reply
  6. 6

    Vijay

    Mihir, we have enough firepower from abroad. What we want to achieve from Tejas is self sufficiency in building latest generation fighters. We already have the pieces in place now to develop a more advanced AMCA and HAL is slowly moving onto becoming a SI which is what its role should be, leaving the mundane parts manufacturing to good private players.

    Reply
    1. 6.1
  7. 7

    Adish

    Very well researched article which gives an insight into pakistan air force capabilities and hints HAL to gear up for the future!

    Reply
  8. 8

    harish

    egypt getting 50 mig 35 for 2 billion while our country paid 2 billion just to upgrade 50 mirages.

    Hal is slow in everything even failing to productionize lca,mki to a good numbers there is no shortage of workers in country.

    Reply
    1. 8.1

      Sanjay

      Country does not have its own priorities , but likes getting looted.

      Reply
  9. 9

    Abhiman

    Interesting Fact: The Joint-Fighter 17 (JF-17) is the Pakistani nomenclature for this jet, signifying the “joint” effort of Pakistan and China in developing it. However, the Chinese insist on terming it the Fighter-China 1 (FC-1), with no mention of Pakistan ! Its a sorry state of affairs for the Chinese pseudo-colony Pakistan, and a lesson which we must learn vis-a-vis the PAK-FA and the locally termed “FGFA” (or whatever).

    The JF-17 was an desperate effort by a Pakistan hemmed in by global sanctions. Finding a small hope in China, it immediately latched on to this project as a financier. Originally meant to be a hybrid between a J-7 and a MiG-29 (more like a single-engined MiG-29), Pakistan was rumoured to have supplied its F-16s to China so that they could study its design. This probably explains the distinctly F-16-ish wing shape and fuselage.

    The fact that the engine is the RD-93, is more a result of Russia’s definitive involvement in the project, than any sly wrangling by Pakistan to obtain a western engine in the face of sanctions.

    The JF-17’s design has another curious aspect of the so-called DSI intakes. Nobody knows how effective these are, but they’re supposed to reduce fuel consumption and increase maneuverability.

    I agree with Mihir Shah that its a mediocre jet at best. Its a very advanced MiG-21 or MiG-29, and can be the workhorse of the 21st century. Its cheap, and pretty much does what it promises. It’s radar is a traditional mechanically steered one, and its FBW is present only in the pitch axis (the yaw and roll axes have an analog-type (?) reflex system.

    However, what is really appreciable is the staunch and stolid support of the PAF and the Pakistani public and media for this, no matter however it is. Desperate times do call for a concerted zeal, and the JF-17 is a good example of that. Contrast this with a former IAF chief, who comes on National TV to deride the Tejas. Or the ToIs and HTs of India, which never miss a chance to berate the Tejas’ with the “30 years in the making” taunt. These fat cats in the IAF and media need to learn a lot from their Pakistani counterparts.

    P.S: The “17” in JF-17, I was told by Pakistani fora members is a continuation of their beloved F-16.

    Reply
  10. 10

    Aeturnum

    The Tejas vs JF-17 comparison seems to evoke memories about the Panzer vs T34. T34 was considered by the Germans to be too crude and simple. The Panzer on the other was highly sophisiticated and no doubt more lethal. But Stalin, true to his belief that “quantity has a quality of its own” overwhelmed the German army by producing the T34 in large numbers QUICKER, whihc means for every destroyed tank, the time to churn out its replacement was shorter. The Panzer on the other hand, due to it’s sophistication, took a much longer to time to assemble. The T34 was major factor in confounding Hitler’s plans. Let’s hope that Tejas doesn’t suffer a similar fate. MAKE ease of production AS PART OF THE SQRs.

    Reply
  11. 11

    Dhruba

    IAF has been notoriously slow in reverse engineering or suppprting indigenous development by trying to have all eggs in one box instead of going for incremental upgrades

    Reply
  12. 12

    jerry

    we stand nowhere in passenger airliners assembly , neither congis nor modi have any plans in this regard

    Reply
  13. 13

    Miot

    In today`s modern combat environment a fighter aircraft is just a platform, turn rates, Gs and Fly-by-wire systems don`t matter as they mostly engage in BVR. You can keep loading these aircraft platforms with off the shelf equipments like radars,ECMs, and missiles. So, at times simplicity and quantity matters, especially for support and defence fighters. In fact this was the soviet strategy for fighters like Mig 29. They deliberately made the Mig29s less sophisticated with a shorter range as they were defensive fighters.

    Reply
  14. 14

    Parshu

    Its also a question of hubris. While Pakistan seeing an existential threat that had cut it in half in the past on its Eastern border, is desperate to defend itself by any means possible India suffers no such fear. So delivery rather than capability is an end for the Pak military which it has successfully prosecuted with the JF17 and the Al Khalid Tank – both good examples of jugaad. In contrast the Tejas and Arjun were not chasing Sasta Sundar aur Tikau but trying to develop self-reliance with technology that was slightly behind the best available to the region. While we can admire the down-to-earth approach of the Pakistanis deploying the airborne equivalent of an AK47 to defend its skies, we should have no doubts that the loftier goal of a 4 Gen Tejas was rightfully set. Its a different issue we may not have the depth of knowhow or Industrial strength to quickly deploy a Tejas but chasing an FC1/JF17 like target would have been wrong for India. A better example to look at for comparison is China – which has leapfrogged in Gen 5 technologies. We have to look above us, not over our shoulders.

    Reply
  15. 15

    jexdr

    Clearly a biased article, written to satisfy little egos of Indians.

    Reply
  16. 16

    yarre

    Well I have red many articles but have never red an article so biased. Writer is comparing the aircraft with high performance, state of the art aircrafts which have been in service for decades and have a history of century. But he has failed to mention the point, that these aircrafts, be it JF17 or Teja are an effort by respective countries in the direction of aircraft manufacturing and that’s what they stand for. You better compare these aircrafts with each other or aircrafts coming from other developing countries. There is no doubt about this, that both of these aircrafts are not A class, but B plus aircrafts and have room for improvements. Either writer is naive or very bigoted, if you as writer can point out the short comings, those setting in aerospace and aircraft research manufacturing plants would’t know about it ? Well off course they do, but as evolution it’s a slow and gradual process of development. And the next generation of these aircraft’s might not have some of these short comings. Also from my understanding comparing the two, no matter how copied from where JF17 appears to be doing better than Teja.

    Reply
  17. 17

    Murad Qadir

    This article is written by Indian and it is reflected in clear bias. Author has his views about the first make of JF 17 built and inducted 10 years before. With block 3, an advanced version of JF17 this aircraft can be compared to any modern aircraft of the world with much reduced cost. This is so why many countries including European Air Forces are considering inducting this aircraft.

    Reply
  18. 18

    Parshu Narayanan

    Be interesting to read a non-biased Pakistani article shorn of national ego – do share. Your compatriot below says “certain” European countries want to buy a Thunder!

    Reply
    1. 18.1

      khan

      facts got wrong in this article, analysis i wont argue as that is the writer opinion

      1. it has two export customers
      2. new version has quadruple fly by wire(JF-17B already in production) and AESA(block 3 radar already selected and in testing)
      3. can deploy all sort of weapons BVRs, WVRS, laser guided, cruise miss, antiship,has next gen turkish pod integrated
      4. thrust tow eight ratio is ~1 and is FAR BETTER and lighter THAN TEJAS
      5. Pakistan is producing 80% of avionics some completely indegnious from previous experience with grifo and 60% airframe

      Reply
  19. 19

    Biplab

    I have no doubt , Pakistan and China outsmart India in fighter development. LCA Tejas is superior to JF-17 but Pakistan and China’s approach and strategy is much smarter than us. Tejas program start in 1983 but even in 2018 , it still not complete. JF-17 start in late 1990s , now it is completed and going to next phase JF-17 block 2 block 3 etc.

    If our government start doing same thing in 1983 , get the Mig-33 design from USSR and developed it. Than we have hundreds of fighters serving in front line.

    Reply
  20. 20

    Kamal

    Well seems the article is written with low to no research and inferences are simply drawn with intentions of painting JF17 as success story which is not the case. Has it been so I suppose Indian SU30 MKI which is licensed produced, overhauled and modified with in india by HAL, even Indians helped Malaysia in their SU30MKM configuration. But SU30MKI was never claimed by india in very way an aircraft with filler role is being done. Please care to understand the kind of industries and subsystems which are developed in the process of developing indigenous products have been created with in India.
    FYI the first flight of tejas was conducted in year 2001, and their are parallel variants like twin seater and Naval which exist. in my eyes its not at all bad.
    For a big economy like India, with huge defence budget its easily afforded and is the right way to go forward.

    but there is always scope for improvements that includes the HAls production rate, Airforce inclination towards foreign toys and politics.

    Had it been a product of China or Pakistan this very plane in its current state would have been inducted and given all clearances and one would have never heard any criticism from own agencies or people (simply matter of pride and ego) where as India is a true democracy and everyone has right to even criticize and question concerned authorities.

    Please understand in comparison of JF17 which is a front line fighter , Tejas serves a role of a point defence figher be it land or carrier.

    so even if One ‘assumes’ both fighters are similar in capabilities one is a premier front line fighter of a country and another just a interceptor .
    Now that actually shows the state of economy of the two countries, where Pakistan runs on loans from Middle-east , China and IMF. Where as thats not the case with India with its huge foriegn reserves.

    Bottom line,
    – JF17 is just a filler (with pride and ego of surrogate country, the mother country doesnt care to use it because it doesnt fit any where for China) to raise numbers in a force and I will say its better than having nothing.
    -The platform of JF17 has low scope of evolution and its almost or will soon be saturated. It just serves the present. (Not like a F16 which despite being now vintage is almost very good contemporary fighters in its newer blocks, or even Grippen which is still evolving )
    – Not a very good export option eithers Saudis still have lots of money they will rather buy a Rafal or EF. and countries like Bangladesh are already operating likes of MiG29. Countries with economies smaller than that of Bangladesh might not even need even such figher aircrafts.

    So when we say JF17 is a very good Aircraft its an excellent aircraft for Pakistan which has no other options right now.

    Reply
  21. 21

    A.Basit

    LOL

    You can keep on writing such moronic articles. It’s similar to masturbating. But it isn’t gonna change the fact that the Thunder block 1 was 70% F-16 in it’s capabilities as per the American aviation experts(google it). While the block 2 even exceeding earlier F-16s. And the block 3 even more interesting
    It was made to replace Pakistan’s aging F-7 and Mirage inventory and JF-17 is the BEST most cost effective technologically superior solution for it and kudos to the PAF leadership for coming up with such a perfect solution
    PLUS,it’s all Pakistani…..means, PAF can do any modifications they wish and install any weapon systems they like(they couldn’t do this to the F-16)
    Doesn’t matter if no country bought it or didn’t buy it. We have 100+ JF-17 units in our inventory and we are gonna have hundreds more.(2 countries purchased it BTW)

    What happened to the 6th generation Taj-ass by the way?

    Reply
  22. 22

    A.Basit

    Poor Indians. Keep on masturbating at such moronic articles.
    BTW,what happened to that 6th generation Taj-ass of yours? And what are you gonna do with those 7th generation flying coffins that makes up more than a half of your air force?

    Reply

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